Does sinning include making mistakes?

[2Dbunk]

I try to avoid sinning and I try to avoid making mistakes. Ethical behavior is very dear to me -- I shudder at the thought that some of our highest politicians have little to no ethics. Is their behavior tantamount to sinning for it certainly smacks of being intentional? (no mistake there, but I digressed.)

In reading the Bible I've not run across much, if any, mention of making judgemental errors. It seems to me that such errors are lumped in with sinning, correct me if I'm wrong. Like marriage to my first wife was a mistake and devorcing her to take a another is biblically considered a sin. Most other of my mistakes pale in comparison, but I wrestle with "bearing false witness" and my Apostasy. Is that a mistake in my declaration of the latter even though I would have to lie to proclaim that I have Faith in Jesus -- A violation of God's Ninth Commandment. The Bible is insistent that apostasy is an un-redemptive sin, so it would be in my best interest to force myself to lie. Why so -- I'm just using the mind that God supposedly has given me, to discern things -- or am I in a big mistake here? The question for debate is: Does sinning include all aspects of the negative, including making mistakes? Yes No Not sure

[PinSeeker]

If sin is missing the mark, then in my experience you can always do better, even when attempting to do something good. In my experience you never get to the point where an action can not be improved on. So I'm not sure sin is a meaningful distinction. You always miss the mark.

Oh, there's a distinction, all right, but the facts that "actions can always be improved on" and we "always miss the mark" (by a lot) just means we're incapable of meeting (or even coming close to) God's standard of perfection... and are therefore in need of a savior.

Additionally, I believe all things work for the Glory of God.

Right, that and for the good of those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.

Mainly this view has been forged by the fires of experience. Terrible tragedy can turn into a unifying event or Evil can create Good. At a minimum one must admit that its not a very straight forward process.

Absolutely! Thanks be to God!

Another fuzzy area for me is my thought life. Weird stuff just pops up in my mind. Not intentionally, as far as I can tell, but stuff that I'm not proud of. Often I find myself correcting these random thoughts even though I didn't mean for them to occur.

Does that not tell you something about your heart, kcplusdc? It should. The heart is the center of the person... who you are at your core. We're sinners. One day that will no longer be the case, but right now, it is. It's the human condition. And it constantly informs us of our need for a savior... or it should, anyway.

Lastly, do we know what good is without evil? A distinction without an opposite is no longer a distinction. So in a way sin cab be viewed as a blessing.

An excellent thought. But I hope you will agree that we shouldn't sin all the more so that grace will abound all the more. Right?

[onewithhim]

Sinning includes anything that fails to measure up to God's standards.

I can't give an answer to your poll request because it all depends on what kind of sin you are talking about. We sin every day, making mistakes. But Jesus' sacrifice absolves us of the punishment for those sins---unintentional as most of them are. The sins that Jesus' sacrifice does not cover are INTENTIONAL sins---gross sins that we know God hates but we do them anyway. Such as adultery, murder, cruelty, stealing, and such.

The Apostle John spoke of intentional sins vs. unintentional sins.

"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death [unintentional], he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death [intentional]; I do not say that he should make request for this." (I John 5:16, NASB)

"For if we go on SINNING WILLFULLY after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins." (Hebrews 10:26, NASB)

[onewithhim]

The kids in the Garden didn't know the difference in good and evil, so when they chose evil, that has to be seen as a mistake rather than as deliberate misbehavior. That's the point of the story.

It's also the point of the story about cursing the tree the hadn't born fruit out of season. The tree didn't make a mistake. There was no way it could bear fruit out of season. God made it that way; god made it unable to bear fruit out of season.

I think that's probably also the point of the, "Don't hide your talents under a bushel," story.

It's clear that you'll be punished for doing "wrong," regardless of whether you knew better, regardless of whether you could have done differently, regardless of whether you made a mistake.

Adam and Eve didn't make any "mistake." They knew exactly what they were doing. Eve believed Satan and didn't think she would die. Adam was not fooled but he deliberately took the fruit anyway. (I Timothy 2:14) They would not have been held responsible for their rebellion if they didn't know right from wrong.

The point of the story is that the first two people had everything they needed and more, and surely spoke at length with their Creator every day. They certainly knew the difference between what is evil and what is good. They DELIBERATELY rebelled against God, even though they knew they would die (as God had warned them).

That is why the human race suffers and dies. If Adam and Eve hadn't disobeyed, they would still be here. No one would ever suffer or die. If they had made an innocent "mistake," God would never have caused them to eventually die. Their children would never have had to suffer and die.

God doesn't punish people for things they didn't understand.

[onewithhim]

Most other of my mistakes pale in comparison, but I wrestle with "bearing false witness" and my Apostasy. Is that a mistake in my declaration of the latter even though I would have to lie to proclaim that I have Faith in Jesus -- A VIOLATION of God's Ninth Commandment? The Bible is insistent that apostasy is an un-redemptive sin, so it would be in my best interest to force myself to lie.

I offered the above statement but no theist has addressed it! How can I avoid transgression of God's will when I will obviously violate one or the other?

I'm trying to understand why you think God would be satisfied with lies from you.

Anyway, faith in Jesus would not be a violation of anything. The Old Testament is full of references to the Messiah, and Jesus stated that he was him.

Everyone violates one thing or the other, because we are imperfect since Adam fell. We make mistakes because we are grappling with imperfect minds. Sometimes it can be attributed to temporary weakness. These unintentional sins are covered by Jesus' sacrifice for the human race, and when we realize we have made these errors, we ask for forgiveness. God forgives us on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice.

It's INTENTIONAL sins that we practice, even though we know we are seriously sinning, that God does not forgive (unless we repent). If you are not practicing serious sins, then you really don't have to worry.

[kcplusdc@yahoo.com]

God is perfect. He is the perfect manifestation of Love.
Man is not perfect, for if man were perfect, he would be like God.
There is only one God.

On a good day my relationship with sin is like my relationship to air, it's everywhere but I don't concentrate on it.
What happens when you concentrate on your breathing? For me, more times then not, I end up with an eradic sorta meditational hyperventilation. Not very effective.
What happens when you concentrate on sin? For me I become stuck in the past, anxious and guilty.
Do you think God is preoccupied with sin? Even more to the point, worried about your sin?
Why would God be offended by something or someone who is not perfect? Only God is perfect.
Love doesn't hold grudges, become offended, or take things personally.
Christ's attitude towards sin seemed to be, "Its cool, move on, pick up your mat and don't sit in it."
Did he pick up a stone and throw it at the woman at the well? Of course not, love doesn't cast stones.
Our righteousness is like filthy rags, looked in the right fashion its very freeing. We don't have to live under the rule of an unfair measurement.
Gods elect are a wonderful collections of scoundrels, murders and denyers, just like everyone else.