HITLER and TRUMP

[2Dbunk]

"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Shirer reveals the history of Adoph Hitler’s efforts in a very, very negative way. But there are some (small amount?) who disagree. Likewise the Holocaust deniers claim that history was distorted by the victor’s claims of gross genocide. Most rational people that I know agree with the former – that Nazism is highly unethical!

I’m in the process of reading "Bonhoeffer" (published in 2011) and find that Eric Metaxas confirms much, if not all, of Shirer’s history. What's most disturbing is that many passages in the text show Hitler’s chaotic politics, mannerisms, and untruthfulness could be attributed to Donald Trump (just reverse their names).

Bonhoeffer was a theologian in Germany who was basically a fundamentalist (the established churches of the 1920s and 30s he found superficial when it came to celebrating the spirit of Jesus). Bonhoeffer quickly became disillusioned with Hitler’s manipulation of those main stream churches and the dictator's disdain for everything Christian while providing lip service to it so as to maintain his “religious� demeanor with the common folk (or he would not have survived in politics, duh).

I ask if anyone cares to debate the Donald’s intentions in making America great again in a (subtle?) but parallel way of Hitler’s efforts to make Germany great again? For that matter one might even throw in Trump’s parroting of Putin’s making Russia great again (Trump does seem to have an affinity for dictators – he even said he wouldn’t mind the opportunity to try that role).

One other question for debate: Why are evangelical Republicans and some Democrats lapping up his chaotic, untruthful soup? With all the indictments docketed the “swamp� seems to be getting deeper -- and thicker.

[Danmark]

Why are evangelical Republicans and some Democrats lapping up his chaotic, untruthful soup? With all the indictments docketed the “swamp� seems to be getting deeper -- and thicker.

Are they still?
After the continual lies, the obvious dishonesty as documented in the Mueller report, the racism and anti Christian xenophobia, are evangelicals still supporting the current occupant of the White House?

I'd be curious to hear the rationale for why a Christian today would still support Donald J. Trump.

[Elijah John]

Why are evangelical Republicans and some Democrats lapping up his chaotic, untruthful soup? With all the indictments docketed the “swamp� seems to be getting deeper -- and thicker.

Are they still?
After the continual lies, the obvious dishonesty as documented in the Mueller report, the racism and anti Christian xenophobia, are evangelicals still supporting the current occupant of the White House?

I'd be curious to hear the rationale for why a Christian today would still support Donald J. Trump.

Why do you call Trump a "racist"? Yes, I know that's the mantra on CNN. And on college campuses. But at best, that is an opinion, not a fact. And an opinion amplified by repetition does not make said opinion a fact.

And is wanting some control of our borders "xenophobic"? Even Jesus got overwhelmed at times. And the USA is overwhelmed now by unfettered immigration. Ask the border patrol, and border town sherrifs whether or not there is a crisis.

Why would a Christian support Donald Trump? The Life issue for one. Many Christians are pro-life, anti-abortion. So is Trump.

Democrats by contrast, champion abortion on demand. Democrat Bob Casey from PA was not even allowed to speak at the DNC a few cycles back, because he was pro-life. Compare that to the big tent of the Republican party. Not only was pro-choice Republican Rudoph Guiliani allowed to speak at the RNC, he was welcomed as a Republican candidate for president.

And Christian endorsement of Trump's Presidency is not necessarily an endorsement of his character. Many of us favored other candidates before he got the Republican nomination.

But given the appalling choice between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, the choice for Trump was very clear for many of us.

And unless the Democrats offer a candidate far better that the current field, I intend to vote for President Trump again.

[Danmark]

Why do you call Trump a "racist"?

"He once asked me if I could name a country run by a black person that wasn't a "shithole." This was when Barack Obama was President of the United States.

While we were once driving through a struggling neighborhood in Chicago, he commented that only black people could live that way. And, he told me that black people would never vote for him because they were too stupid."
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a ... mp-racist/

His history as a real estate developer who, along with his father, was found to practice racism in operating his real estate ventures.


"Donald Trump has been obsessed with race for the entire time he has been a public figure. He had a history of making racist comments as a New York real-estate developer in the 1970s and ‘80s. More recently, his political rise was built on promulgating the lie that the nation’s first black president was born in Kenya. He then launched his campaign with a speech describing Mexicans as rapists."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... acist.html

And is wanting some control of our borders "xenophobic"?

Certainly not. But raging against immigrants in general is. But his xenophobia is also racist and cultural. He rails mainly against "shithole countries," naming them such because they are not 'white;' while praising countries like Norway and condemning countries that are non white.

Trump's racism is obvious and one does not need CNN or any particular news source to 'get it.' There are many examples.
'In June 2017, Trump said 15,000 recent immigrants from Haiti “all have AIDS� and that 40,000 Nigerians, once seeing the United States, would never “go back to their huts� in Africa.'
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... acist.html

It isn't that he is just a racist. He's a bigot. It permeates his thinking. He seems incapable of rational thought or of thinking outside stereotypes. It is part and parcel of his sloppy, prejudiced thinking and goofy pronouncements like windmills causing cancer.

Hitler too was opposed to abortion. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1972501?se ... b_contents

'Christians' who agree with all manner of immorality in their leaders if only they oppose abortion are hardly worthy of the name 'Christian.'

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 13 by Danmark]

Yes, Trump does tend to speak in gross generalizations. He would be reprimanded for "blanket statements" here on our site. (among other things).

You make some good points, but there's a few that the Left makes that I've always had trouble with.

1) How does questioning someone's eligibility to run for President or to be President based on questions surrounding that persons place of birth in and of itself prove that Trump (or any "birther" for that matter) is "racist"?

After all, Obama spent years of his youth in Indonesia, and had a Kenyan father, and if I'm not mistaken spent childhood years there as well.

And Trump questioned Ted Cruz (born in Canada) eligibility as well. The fact that Obama is black is incidental to the question, not relevant.

2) Does objecting to the distruction of Robert E Lee statues make one in and of itself "racist"?

And if I grant for the sake of argument that President Trump has some prejudice, perhaps more than the average person, does that in and of itself present a disqualifier for office? As long as that bias does not infect his policies. And there is no proof that it has.

OK, so Hitler was opposed to abortion. So what? Hitler also ate meals. So do we. Does that make us Hitlerian? And I am opposed to abortion in most cases, does that make me like Hitler?

It's not just the abortion issue. The Clinton campaign, (Jennifer Palmieri in particular) was perceived as hostile to people of faith. So how could anyone blame a religious person for voting against Hillary Clinton?

Consider this, from the Washington Times:

The Clinton campaign’s biggest problem may be its assault on Catholics. Prominent Catholic organizations called on Clinton campaign spokeswoman Jennifer Palmieri to resign after the surfacing of messages showing her making fun of the faith. The campaign of Republican nominee Donald Trump seized on the opportunity to appeal to religious voters.

And religious conservatives favor traditional marriage. So did Obama until recently. But the Democrat party nowadays seems to favor every revision to tradition, every new trend that comes along. Even at the expense of traditional values and practice. So again, how can religious conservatives be blamed for voting against Hillary Clinton?

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 14 by Elijah John]

Trump is obviously a racist. That some make poor or illogical arguments he is a racist is irrelevant. I am an American by birth. That someone claims I am an American "just because I live there" does not make me any less an American. The fact Trump, author of over 10,000 lies in two years, claims he is not a racist is also irrelevant.

The fact he claims to be a nationalist, complains regularly about people based on their race, religion, and ethnicity is consistent with both bigotry in general and racism in particular.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 14 by Elijah John]

Trump is obviously a racist. That some make poor or illogical arguments he is a racist is irrelevant. I am an American by birth. That someone claims I am an American "just because I live there" does not make me any less an American. The fact Trump, author of over 10,000 lies in two years, claims he is not a racist is also irrelevant.

The fact he claims to be a nationalist, complains regularly about people based on their race, religion, and ethnicity is consistent with both bigotry in general and racism in particular.

I said nothing about Trump's claiming that he is not a racist. I'm not aware of him going around saying "I'm not a racist". But just because his accusers say that he is, does not prove the accusation. At best, that is opinion and perception. When the Left loses the battle of ideas, they are quick to draw the race card as a rhetorical weapon. A sleazy tactic that is all too often used against innocent people.

If an American puts America first, I can see how that makes that person a "nationalist". But what is wrong with putting your own nation first? Seems very desirable is the President of the nation in question. Is being a "nationalist" now equivalent to being a "racist" in the eyes of the Left? If so, the Left has gone further off the deep end than I realize.

I disagree with your assertion, (which I see as unfounded) that Trump "complains regularly about people based on their race, religion and ethnicity."

Name calling has become a tactic of the Left. Their way of demonizing people they disagree with. Because Trump did it first in the Republican primary campaign, does not make it right. The Democrat party needs to step up to the plate and offer us good, dignified candidates with some good ideas on the issues. Enough with the PC nonsense, identity politics, and name calling. I saw some hope with Joe Biden's rally in Pittsburgh today, him articulating his advocacy for the little guy, with a minimum of Left wing nonsense tactics. Very substantive speech, and not "sleepy". Energetic, dignified, passionate and authentic. I hope we see more of this from Mr. Biden, and less pandering to the young extremists in his party, and fewer apologies.

Also, you never answered my question. If a person opposes the destruction of Robert E Lee statues, does that necessarily make that person a "racist"? The answer speaks to the issue of Charlottesville, and the Dems and CNN's twisting Trump's remarks about what happened there.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 15 by Danmark]

Also, if you really wanted to understand why any Christian would support Trump, I hope my answers have helped. Why conservatives Christians would anyway. It really amounts to "what choice do we have" when the Democrats offer no real or good alternatives. So far, anyway.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 17 by Elijah John]

I get why they voted for him. What I don't get is why they still support him after his total corruption has been laid so bare. And I completely reject the notion that any other candidate of any party compares unfavorably to him.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]

And unless the Democrats offer a candidate far better that the current field, I intend to vote for President Trump again.

It would be interesting if Trump and Biden become the 2020 matchup: Trump's "Make America Great Again" v. Biden's "Make America Moral Again." How would evangelicals handle "money" and crassness v. "morality" and dignity?

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 17 by Elijah John]

This is a direct challenge to you, EJ:

2Dbunk wrote:

It would be interesting if Trump and Biden become the 2020 matchup: Trump's "Make America Great Again" v. Biden's "Make America Moral Again." How would evangelicals handle "money" and crassness v. "morality" and dignity?

How would you vote in such a polarized matchup? OR, Leave those two contenders out of the contest -- would you vote money and crassness over morality and dignity?