HITLER and TRUMP

[2Dbunk]

"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" by William Shirer reveals the history of Adoph Hitler’s efforts in a very, very negative way. But there are some (small amount?) who disagree. Likewise the Holocaust deniers claim that history was distorted by the victor’s claims of gross genocide. Most rational people that I know agree with the former – that Nazism is highly unethical!

I’m in the process of reading "Bonhoeffer" (published in 2011) and find that Eric Metaxas confirms much, if not all, of Shirer’s history. What's most disturbing is that many passages in the text show Hitler’s chaotic politics, mannerisms, and untruthfulness could be attributed to Donald Trump (just reverse their names).

Bonhoeffer was a theologian in Germany who was basically a fundamentalist (the established churches of the 1920s and 30s he found superficial when it came to celebrating the spirit of Jesus). Bonhoeffer quickly became disillusioned with Hitler’s manipulation of those main stream churches and the dictator's disdain for everything Christian while providing lip service to it so as to maintain his “religious� demeanor with the common folk (or he would not have survived in politics, duh).

I ask if anyone cares to debate the Donald’s intentions in making America great again in a (subtle?) but parallel way of Hitler’s efforts to make Germany great again? For that matter one might even throw in Trump’s parroting of Putin’s making Russia great again (Trump does seem to have an affinity for dictators – he even said he wouldn’t mind the opportunity to try that role).

One other question for debate: Why are evangelical Republicans and some Democrats lapping up his chaotic, untruthful soup? With all the indictments docketed the “swamp� seems to be getting deeper -- and thicker.

[PaulofSarja]

If a person can't see Trump's racist 'dog whistles' for what they are, a person of good will should question his (or her) own prejudices.

Is it just me or am I hearing a dog whistle here? Is this a polite way of saying "if you don't agree with me, that Trump is a racist, then you too are a racist"?

Let me virtue signal a bit here. I don't want to see another 4 years of a Trump administration, not because he is a racist but because he is not good at running our government yet thinks he is great at it. In my opinion, it is not the presidents job to run the government, she is there to oversee those who do run it. And I do hope that someone like Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder or Walter E. Williams steps up to take the republican nomination. (I say 'someone like', because age is a problem for two of these gentlemen)

Let me put it in context, without any other information about a person except that they appeared Asian, or African, on Middle Eastern, or Mexican and you heard someone tell that person, "Go back to the country you came from," would you think the speaker had a motive that was at least partly based on race?

You are 100% right, without any other information we have a racist remark.

But, we do have more information, skin color and gender is not the only thing that these women have in common. They are radical leftists who want to radically transform our nation, because they don't like our nation.

[Bust Nak]

This forum has a civility policy that life doesn't have BUT if anyone breaks it we send them back to where they came from.

This would be racist if one brings this rule up solely to address people of certain races.

[Danmark]

If a person can't see Trump's racist 'dog whistles' for what they are, a person of good will should question his (or her) own prejudices.

Is it just me or am I hearing a dog whistle here? Is this a polite way of saying "if you don't agree with me, that Trump is a racist, then you too are a racist"?

I carefully avoided saying that. -In fact, in one case I went out of my way to say, "I'm sure you are not a racist, but you sound like one when you...."

My belief however is different. Anyone who does not see the OBVIOUS racism and bigotry in Trump's words, in many of his phrases, from equating Nazis and white supremacists with civil rights advocates, to rejecting a judge because he was a Mexican (he's an American) is at the least extremely racially insensitive and likely a racist, oblivious to that fact.

Trump's racism is so obvious and embarrassing that those of you who claim he and his remarks are not racist are the butts of many jokes that are going around about your incredible naiveté/racism.
Yes, in terms of my private opinion, not as an accusation of anyone in particular, if a person does not see Trump as not just a racist, but a bigot in many areas, then that person should do some very serious and honest soul searching.

[Danmark]

Still don't think Trump is a racist? Jack O'Donnell knew him well. He worked for him managing the Trump Atlantic City Casino for 3 years, seeing him on a daily basis. Trump would daily say embarrassing racist remarks; was like an old time segregationist, "racist through and through."

[Wootah]

Is this thread on racism now?

I'll post this here and we can move the discussion elsewhere if needed.

I think we are all racist and I think when we pander to minorities and try to fit in with them that we are sub consciously being racist because we know the local majority will react.

Anecdote: Going back to where you came from is very useful.

In school I remember the Greek kids would act Greek but after they went back to Greece on a holiday they quickly learned that thecreal Greeks in Greece didnt think they were Greek.

I also know in Australia the most vocal voices for Australia in my community are Asian. The ones who know how good it is, the ones who fled their countries generations ago are most sad that Westen nations seem to be self destructing.

I truly believe the ones who are racist and want to see the world burn are the ones calling Trump racist. Constantly they stoke fires rather than put fires out.

If you want to overcome alcoholism you have to admit you are an alcoholic. Same for racism.

[Danmark]

Is this thread on racism now?
....
If you want to overcome alcoholism you have to admit you are an alcoholic. Same for racism.

Racism is an integral part of Trump's history, his thinking, his policies, his rhetoric and it is anti Christian.
Yes I agree, to overcome racism you must admit it and racism or tribalism (its first cousin) seems to be almost the default position for human culture. The difference with Trump is he incites and encourages and enables racism and bigotry and xenophobia.

He said Omar and 3 others of color (no one 'white') should go back to her country.
That evening or the next day in a rally his crowd chanted "Send her back." Trump made no attempt to stop them. He now claims he did, but the chant of the crowd went on for 13 seconds before he spoke next.

The man lies about everything.

You are lucky to live in Australia. I could not rest if I did not publicly disavow this monster. To many the parallel of Trumpism with the 3rd Reich is inescapable. I want to be on record as one who spoke up.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 76 by Wootah]

It's not racist. If anyone thinks it is then they are hearing dog whistles.

Rude and aggressive is not equal to racist.

Okay, accounting for a dog whistle (apt analogy?), we have a president who is rude and aggressive! Those are hardly Civil or Christian attributes -- or is that the new Christianity?

I ask, what is the limit of rudeness if not calling out a group by their color because they don't agree with HIS agenda, and it's not racist?

This forum has a civility policy that life doesn't have BUT if anyone breaks it we send them back to where they came from.

If Trump talked the way he does (on this forum), he WOULD BE SENT BACK WHERE HE CAME FROM!

[justme2]

George Conway, Republican, spoke for me today:

"No, I thought, President Trump was boorish, dim-witted, inarticulate, incoherent, narcissistic and insensitive. He’s a pathetic bully but an equal-opportunity bully — in his uniquely crass and crude manner, he’ll attack anyone he thinks is critical of him. No matter how much I found him ultimately unfit, I still gave him the benefit of the doubt about being a racist. No matter how much I came to dislike him, I didn’t want to think that the president of the United States is a racial bigot.

But Sunday left no doubt. Naivete, resentment and outright racism, roiled in a toxic mix, have given us a racist president. Trump could have used vile slurs, including the vilest of them all, and the intent and effect would have been no less clear. Telling four non-white members of Congress — American citizens all, three natural-born — to “go back� to the “countries� they “originally came from�? That’s racist to the core. It doesn’t matter what these representatives are for or against — and there’s plenty to criticize them for — it’s beyond the bounds of human decency. For anyone, not least a president.

What’s just as bad, though, is the virtual silence from Republican leaders and officeholders. They’re silent not because they agree with Trump. Surely they know better. They’re silent because, knowing that he’s incorrigible, they have inured themselves to his wild statements; because, knowing that he’s a fool, they don’t really take his words seriously and pretend that others shouldn’t, either; because, knowing how damaging Trump’s words are, the Republicans don’t want to give succor to their political enemies; because, knowing how vindictive, stubborn and obtusely self-destructive Trump is, they fear his wrath."

The entire article is worth reading and recounts a childhood experience where Conway heard the common racist remark,

'But I will never forget what she said to my mother, who had come to this country from the Philippines decades before. In these words or something close, the woman said, “Go back to your country.�'
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 4116a0851b

Some things just need repeating until they are heard

[marco]

He said Omar and 3 others of color (no one 'white') should go back to her country. .

To be fair I understand, but perhaps the report was wrong, that there was no full stop after country but a continuation, a clause of purpose: so that they could first fix the wrongs there and then return to America and, having done something with a country (Somalia) that needs help, they could offer solutions for America that does not.


Somalia exports or supports pirates, as I understand, so perhaps President Trump was, in kindness, suggesting something could be done for that benighted land and who better to do it than those who have some connection with it and are wise enough to see flaws in America.

Put that way, the President's advice was perfect, advantageous both to poor Somalia and the wealthy USA. But of course I am being devil's advocate and my land is not presidentially presided over.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to Danmark]

It's not racist. If anyone thinks it is then they are hearing dog whistles.

Rude and aggressive is not equal to racist.

This forum has a civility policy that life doesn't have BUT if anyone breaks it we send them back to where they came from.

I agree Wootah. Telling someone to "go back" is not racist, it is more like saying "love it or leave it". "Love it or leave it" used to be said against hippie protesters in the 1960s here in the USA. That was not a racist suggestion.

Also, those who accuse others of using "dog whistles" are being paranoid, imo. Seeing racism where it doesn't exist. The accusers have chips on their shoulders.

One thing we have learned even here on this site, is that when someone is losing an argument or debate, it is all too easy to fall into the habit of name calling. The Left in the USA is very adept at this, as they have very little to offer the average American except for empty promises, and demonization of people who don't agree with them.

And yes, President Trump has a tendency for rudeness. No argument there. But many of us support him in spite of his rudeness, not because of it. And that is because we agree with his policies, and the Democrats so far offer no viable alternative.