If Jesus is God...

[Elijah John]

If Jesus is God, why didn't he spend any time or energy demonstrating this claim, or attempting to convince people?

Jesus didn't go around preaching the doctrine that he was God, nor did he attempt to prove it.

Instead, Jesus preached the Father and His mercy, repentance and the Kingdom of God. And he went around healing people. But the healings do not prove that Jesus is God, if they actually happened.

The notion that a man is God is a mighty big claim. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Where's the extraordinary evidence?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 8 by onewithhim]

This is an aside. But, what does Young's do with David's psalm and the "lord said to my lord"?

An interesting aside.

Jesus asked pointedly about those verses, in Matthew 22:41-45.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint]

Yes, which was why I brought them up. Quote from Young's is coming for sure.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 11 by Checkpoint]

Yes, which was why I brought them up. Quote from Young's is coming for sure.

Here it is:

Matthew 22:

41 And the Pharisees having been gathered together, Jesus did question them,

42 saying, ‘What do ye think concerning the Christ? of whom is he son?’ They say to him, ‘Of David.’

43 He saith to them, ‘How then doth David in the Spirit call him lord, saying,

44 The Lord said to my lord, Sit at my right hand, till I may make thine enemies thy footstool?

45 If then David doth call him lord, how is he his son?’

46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor durst any from that day question him any more.

[brianbbs67]

Psalm 110 from YLT

Psalm 110 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

110 A Psalm of David. The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'
2 The rod of thy strength doth Jehovah send from Zion, Rule in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people [are] free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength, in the honours of holiness, From the womb, from the morning, Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 Jehovah hath sworn, and doth not repent, `Thou [art] a priest to the age, According to the order of Melchizedek.'
5 The Lord on thy right hand smote kings In the day of His anger.
6 He doth judge among the nations, He hath completed the carcases, Hath smitten the head over the mighty earth.
7 From a brook in the way he drinketh, Therefore he doth lift up the head!

[Elijah John]

Psalm 110 from YLT

Psalm 110 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

110 A Psalm of David. The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'
2 The rod of thy strength doth Jehovah send from Zion, Rule in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people [are] free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength, in the honours of holiness, From the womb, from the morning, Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 Jehovah hath sworn, and doth not repent, `Thou [art] a priest to the age, According to the order of Melchizedek.'
5 The Lord on thy right hand smote kings In the day of His anger.
6 He doth judge among the nations, He hath completed the carcases, Hath smitten the head over the mighty earth.
7 From a brook in the way he drinketh, Therefore he doth lift up the head!

I can't prove it, but I very much doubt the Davidic authorship of this Psalm. It is an odd reference, and an outlier. Everywhere else in the Psalms, the only LORD David knew was YHVH.

The Psalm makes a whole lot more sense if it is interpreted this way: "the LORD (YHVH) said to my Lord (King David)...David was the "Lord" in the Psalm, the author, unknown.

[tam]

Peace to you EJ,

Psalm 110 from YLT

Psalm 110 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

110 A Psalm of David. The affirmation of Jehovah to my Lord: `Sit at My right hand, Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.'
2 The rod of thy strength doth Jehovah send from Zion, Rule in the midst of thine enemies.
3 Thy people [are] free-will gifts in the day of Thy strength, in the honours of holiness, From the womb, from the morning, Thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 Jehovah hath sworn, and doth not repent, `Thou [art] a priest to the age, According to the order of Melchizedek.'
5 The Lord on thy right hand smote kings In the day of His anger.
6 He doth judge among the nations, He hath completed the carcases, Hath smitten the head over the mighty earth.
7 From a brook in the way he drinketh, Therefore he doth lift up the head!

I can't prove it, but I very much doubt the Davidic authorship of this Psalm.

And yet the Teacher (Christ) whom God sent us, said that David was the one speaking. Matt 22:42-45



Peace again to you.

[quality]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John] I question whether your question is serious but will address part of it. The evidence is in John 1. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. In John 1:14 it is revealed who the Word is: Jesus. If you are not a Christian or Born Again, you cannot understand this unless you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14.) But would advise reading the entire chapter in a contextual approach.

[Elijah John]

And yet the Teacher (Christ) whom God sent us, said that David was the one speaking. Matt 22:42-45

Peace again to you.

Just about everywhere else in the book of Psalms the only Lord that King David knew was YHVH. Jesus is not YHVH. So the Psalm makes no sense if David penned it.

The fact that Matthew's Jesus quoted the passage only proves that Matthew's Jesus accepted the traditional attribution of the Psalm being from David, Jesus being a man of his times, and all. Either that or Matthew, like "John" also put word's on Jesus lips, because it suited his agenda.

But context, and internal evidence contradicts "Jesus" assumption. It would not be the first time that "Jesus" was wrong. (ref Matthew 16.28)

David simply does not go around in the Psalms referring to the Messiah as his "Lord".

There was no Lord above King David except for YHVH. Not even the Messiah. The Messiah was expected to be another very human King, in the manner of King David. At best, David's equal, not his superior. David was the prototype.

In fact, David was the original "Messiah" and did not even seem to have been aware of the concept of another Messiah to come. The next Messiah was supposed to have been another David, not some supernatural "Christ".

That according to the Jews, who invented the concept.

The Christian concept of the Messiah as the supernatural "Christ" is revisionist, a re-invention.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John] I question whether your question is serious but will address part of it. The evidence is in John 1. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. In John 1:14 it is revealed who the Word is: Jesus. If you are not a Christian or Born Again, you cannot understand this unless you are indwelled with the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:14.) But would advise reading the entire chapter in a contextual approach.

Of course the OP question is serious. And you have not addressed it. I did not ask what "John" believed. I asked if Jesus is God, why didn't he go around preaching the notion that he was God, or attempting to convince people by demonstrating the claim.

The fact that he didn't is evidence he is not. The notion that Jesus was God came later, and was thrust upon him by his most fervent supporters. Supporters inclined to view him as a supernatural being, arguably beginning with Paul and the Gospel evangelist "John".

But even John was not entirely consistent on the claim. In chapter 17, verse 3 his Jesus identifies the Father alone as God.

Nor was Paul, who in 1st Timothy 2.5 identifies Jesus as the one human mediator, not as God himself.

[quality]

[Replying to post 18 by Elijah John] What John believed is based on what the Holy Spirit put in his heart, with the author being God. 2 Timothy 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:21 explains this supernatural fact quite well. So if you have missed this basic truth, you have missed the Gospel. My question to you is if you are regenerated in Christ or Born Again? If not you will not be able to spiritually discern the Bible, based on 1 Corinthians 2:14.

So I guess I'm not clear on what your point is? You can't explain spiritual things in secular terms with finite logic. One has to make a decision on who Jesus is and what that name means to them. 2 Timothy 3:7: 'always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. If your question is sincere, then I would suggest that you are apparently spiritually searching, and or, in eternal danger.