How is Christ a second Adam?

[marco]

Humans emerged in the Pleistocene Epoch but creatures resembling us appeared in the previous period. Of the various brutes that grunted and fought we do not know which one was Adam, nor indeed do we know the names of many creatures of that time but by a miracle of recording we are lucky to have Eve, Cain and Abel.


The enormously clever writer Paul compared Christ to Adam and invented a theory of different types of bodies which, as far as I know, has yet to win scientific acceptance. Cardinal Newman, perhaps even cleverer than Paul, wrote a hymn: Praise to the Holiest in which he mentions "a second Adam to the fight and to the rescue came."

Apparently humans had long been distressed and Jesus came to alleviate their misery. It is not clear how he did this, as the world continued as if he had done nothing. Of course people like Paul sowed theological seeds for varieties of belief, but nothing on earth changed because of Jesus. People continued to die.

So in what way was Jesus a second Adam?
Does calling him such make Jesus a myth?

[dio9]

[Replying to marco]

anyway Jesus was born into a different environment than the first man . Born in a stable not in paradise . As for him being the son of God , he was and we are all potential sons of God too.

[marco]

[Replying to marco]

anyway Jesus was born into a different environment than the first man . Born in a stable not in paradise . As for him being the son of God , he was and we are all potential sons of God too.

I am fairly confident there was no paradise located between the Tigris and Euphrates, though the cradle of civilisation, with its grunts and groans, may have been there. I am fairly confident that pregnant Mary didn't camel her way across the world to register, since she wouldn't have been required to do so. Bethlehem was invented as birth setting to give Jesus a little part in Scripture, and much of his life was moulded on quotations. Jesus is probably 10% man and 90% myth.

[dio9]

[Replying to marco]

If your op begins with a metaphor , It can only be responded to with a metaphor. As something in Adam dies in disobedience , that same something is renewed In Jesus.
In metaphor there is truth for those who have eyes to see.
"1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."
"1 Corinthians 15:45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being�; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
The answer to your question is in the metaphor , regardless whether Adam or Jesus were historic persons.The metaphor says (if that is indeed what it is) Jesus gives believers the opportunity to restored the life the authors see as lost by Adam.
The question for me is , is humanity out of sync with what is good and holy and is it possible to get in sync with it ? Or even is there a good and holy reality?
I choose to believe there is and the cup is half full.

[marco]

[Replying to marco]

If your op begins with a metaphor , It can only be responded to with a metaphor. As something in Adam dies in disobedience , that same something is renewed In Jesus.

If my OP began with a metaphor, posters could please themselves how they wanted to reply. As it happens my OP doesn't begin with a metaphor but places man in the Pleistocene Epoch.

Imagining the first of those early men, making him of mud and giving him a name and setting him in a garden is a metaphor for a golden age. Tibullus, the Latin poet, says in translation:

"How well they lived in the age of Saturn, before the earth was opened into big highways, when there was no cruel sword.... " This too is a metaphoric setting in which to place our happy first ancestors. Usually the story has somebody spoiling it for everyone else.

Jesus is a person who decided to wander round instructing peasants when he turned thirty - no one knows why. He annoyed society and was punished. Later his name became associated with God and some folk claimed he had been seen after he was put in a tomb. Others say he flew up into heaven and stayed there. Many believe this, even today when we have fast food that needs no miraculous multiplication and hearing aids that don't get spat upon. Nothing in this hints of an Adamic connection. If anything Jesus thought he was related to Isaac not Adam.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 14 by marco]

If you are looking for meaning in the Bible , know it is not a science book. The meaning is in the metaphor. The question I see is , " how do we reconcile the good God with people who do bad things. "

[marco]

[Replying to post 14 by marco]

If you are looking for meaning in the Bible , know it is not a science book. The meaning is in the metaphor. The question I see is , " how do we reconcile the good God with people who do bad things. "

Why did Christ take his first clay attempt to speak for unborn generations, all with different abilities and levels of morality?


In what way was Jesus needed to have himself killed to redeem Gandhi, a man who was every bit as good as Jesus, minus the miracles?


The Bible of course is not a science book, but there are many non-science books from which we can extract good lessons. I am at a loss to extract a lesson from


"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

Some would close their eyes to this episode, but what has been written, has been written, as Pilate nearly said. Coming from Hitler it would be held in disgust, but from God.....

[dio9]

[Replying to post 14 by marco]

If you are looking for meaning in the Bible , know it is not a science book. The meaning is in the metaphor. The question I see is , " how do we reconcile the good God with people who do bad things. "

Why did Christ take his first clay attempt to speak for unborn generations, all with different abilities and levels of morality?


In what way was Jesus needed to have himself killed to redeem Gandhi, a man who was every bit as good as Jesus, minus the miracles?


The Bible of course is not a science book, but there are many non-science books from which we can extract good lessons. I am at a loss to extract a lesson from


"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

Some would close their eyes to this episode, but what has been written, has been written, as Pilate nearly said. Coming from Hitler it would be held in disgust, but from God.....

first off , what are you saying? first clay attempt speak to many generations?

2. Jesus didn't have himself killed. he was betrayed and killed. It wasn't supposed to happen. If Jesus was working against the British empire he may well have established his kingdom of God.
3. Oh Christ save us from a repeat of the bloody bronze age.
4. Hold on you can't be serious comparing the God of Christ and Gandhi to Hitler?

[JehovahsWitness]

1 CORINTHIANS 15:45

"So it is written: The first man Adam became a living person. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit" - NWT

So in what way was Jesus a second Adam?

Biblically Jesus is refered to as "the last Adam" because his sacrifice effectively opened the way for faithful humans to be "adopted" by him, so that through him they may be given everlasting life. Thus Jesus becomes mankind's "eternal father" replacing Adam who failed to make a decision to protection his children.

ISAIAH 9:6

For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us ...His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

JW

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NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[marco]

/

Jesus didn't have himself killed. he was betrayed and killed. It wasn't supposed to happen.

And yet Jesus acted as if it were following a divine plan, fully supposed to happen. Jesus had a passion for acting in accordance with bits of Scripture.

Take Isaiah 53:7

He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so he said nothing.

He chose not to defend himself, so he acted suicidally.

If Jesus was working against the British empire he may well have established his kingdom of God.

I think not. Admiral Byng was executed just for losing British control of Minorca. Alan Turing was effectively killed for being homosexual. The British Government was as harsh as Rome, and had to be. Perhaps Jesus would have been put in an asylum.

[marco]

"So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.� The last Adam became a life-giving spirit"

Paul is no more infallible than the Pope making guesses. He's rambling theologically.

Biblically Jesus is refered to as "the second Adam" because his sacrifice effectively opened the way for faithful humans to be "adopted" by him, so that through him they may be given everlasting life. Thus Jesus becomes mankind's "eternal father" replacing Adam who failed to make a decision to protection his children.

This is convoluted theory. Adoption is a human device and there's not the slightest sign that thirty-year old Jesus in any sense "adopted" a multitude of all ages.

For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us ...His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

There is no link between this quote and Adam. It is supposed that Jesus is being prophetically referred to and yet he wasn't called "Mighty Counsellor" any more than was Plato. As for "Prince of Peace" he specifically denied this title. Matthew 10:34 says otherwwise: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Ergo we have no justification for linking Jesus with any Neanderthal other than to say that like everyone else, he descended from unknown ancient ancestors.