Make the mountains fit the tale?

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Zzyzx
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Make the mountains fit the tale?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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When those who believe that the Noah flood tale is literal truth are informed that total amount of water available make that doubtful (at best), a typical response is, “The mountains were lower back then (a few thousand years ago). Not only does this display lack of knowledge of hydrology and geology but the claim is totally unsubstantiated – just made up to ‘explain’ the ancient tale of a worldwide flood.

There are about 1500 mountains over 1000 feet above sea level, 250 of them exceeding 20,000 feet, and one, Mt. Everest, that reaches 29,029 feet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _elevation

ALL of those (and all lesser elevation mountains) would have to be covered to meet the conditions specified in Genesis. It should also be noted that people are able to make their homes and communities at elevations over 15,000 feet and to frequent much higher elevations.
Genesis 7:19Finally, the waters completely inundated the earth, so that all the high mountains under all the heavens were covered. 20The waters rose and covered the mountaintops to a depth of fifteen cubits. 21And every creature that had moved upon the earth perished—birds, livestock, animals, every creature that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind. 22Of all that had been on dry land, everything that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23And every living thing on the face of the earth was destroyed—man and livestock, crawling creatures and birds of the air; they were blotted out from the earth, and only Noah remained, and those with him in the ark.
The text is very clear – water completely inundated the Earth, covered all high mountains, and wiped out every living thing on the face of the Earth.

If someone wants to claim that ‘the mountains were lower’:

1. How much lower?
2. What is the evidence to support that claim?
3. Did the mountains form rapidly in a few thousand years? Evidence?
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Re: Make the mountains fit the tale?

Post #21

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: …You need to explain what verifiable evidence you can present that would cause one to question the conclusion that this trapped, hidden water has been there for billions of years.
Actually no, the person who claims that it has been there for billions of years should prove his claim, if he wants that it is believed. Until it is proven, there is no reason why it must be believed. There is no reason why it should be taken as a fact, before it is proven.

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Re: Make the mountains fit the tale?

Post #22

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote:
Tcg wrote: …You need to explain what verifiable evidence you can present that would cause one to question the conclusion that this trapped, hidden water has been there for billions of years.
Actually no, the person who claims that it has been there for billions of years should prove his claim, if he wants that it is believed. Until it is proven, there is no reason why it must be believed. There is no reason why it should be taken as a fact, before it is proven.

How then has it been proven that there is trapped, hidden water deep in the earth? You seem to accept that as a fact and yet have required no proof.


Why the double standard?



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Re: Make the mountains fit the tale?

Post #23

Post by Zzyzx »

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Tcg wrote:
1213 wrote:
Tcg wrote: …You need to explain what verifiable evidence you can present that would cause one to question the conclusion that this trapped, hidden water has been there for billions of years.
Actually no, the person who claims that it has been there for billions of years should prove his claim, if he wants that it is believed. Until it is proven, there is no reason why it must be believed. There is no reason why it should be taken as a fact, before it is proven.
How then has it been proven that there is trapped, hidden water deep in the earth? You seem to accept that as a fact and yet have required no proof.

Why the double standard?
This is a 'textbook example' of cherry picking of science by Apologists attempting to make mythology sound rational -- accept without question anything that seems to support the story and reject anything that contradicts it. Accept all the benefits that science provides but condemn science if information contradicts religious tales.
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Re: Make the mountains fit the tale?

Post #24

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: How then has it been proven that there is trapped, hidden water deep in the earth? You seem to accept that as a fact and yet have required no proof.
By what I know, atheists accept it as fact and I have no reason to deny it, so we can keep it. But I understand that it is not necessary a proven fact, just belief that we all maybe can accept? And if it is correct, it fits well to what the Bible tells.

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Re: Make the mountains fit the tale?

Post #25

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote:
Tcg wrote: How then has it been proven that there is trapped, hidden water deep in the earth? You seem to accept that as a fact and yet have required no proof.
By what I know, atheists accept it as fact and I have no reason to deny it, so we can keep it. But I understand that it is not necessary a proven fact, just belief that we all maybe can accept? And if it is correct, it fits well to what the Bible tells.

This is simply a more detailed description of your double standard. It doesn't answer the question which you stripped from my previous reply:

  • Why the double standard?

If you applied the same standard to both the existence of trapped, hidden water and the fact that it has been there for billions of years, you'd either accept both or reject both.


You have yet to explain why you expect proof for the billions of years, but accept by faith that there is trapped, hidden water deep in the earth.



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Re: Make the mountains fit the tale?

Post #26

Post by 1213 »

Tcg wrote: …You have yet to explain why you expect proof for the billions of years, but accept by faith that there is trapped, hidden water deep in the earth.
The difference between those is, it can be checked is there the water. The dating cannot be checked. That is why they are not equal matters. It is easier to make false claims about things that cannot be checked than about matters that can be checked.

But this is not really about what I believe. If I would believe both of those matters, it would not matter here. Only if atheists believe even part of the matter, it is useful for me here. If you believe there is the water, then there is also the question how the water came to there. And for that Bible gives in my opinion the best explanation.

For me this is otherwise irrelevant. It would not be problem, if there is the water, and if there is not the water, it is not a problem for me. Even the age is not necessary a problem. However, the age causes many more questions, which is why I don’t accept it without good reason/proof/evidence.

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Re: Make the mountains fit the tale?

Post #27

Post by Tcg »

1213 wrote:
Tcg wrote: …You have yet to explain why you expect proof for the billions of years, but accept by faith that there is trapped, hidden water deep in the earth.
The difference between those is, it can be checked is there the water.

Unless you've checked yourself, you have no way to verify this. You are trusting the findings from the article on this matter, but not the other.


If you have checked for yourself, please explain how you did so and provide verifiable evidence of your findings.



Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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