Does struggli into the same sin mean that you are not saved?

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Does repeatedly struggling with the same sin over and over, after having repented many a time and having prayed to God for forgiveness, mean that you are not saved and that you will end up in hell? Let me know your opinions on this matter.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 1 by Lucian Hodoboc]

Does repeatedly struggling with the same sin over and over, after having repented many a time and having prayed to God for forgiveness, mean that you are not saved and that you will end up in hell?

Firstly, there is no such place as a hell (as explained by the believers in it)...
Well, yes there is a hell, and it is a real place; Jesus mentioned it as such many times.

What you say here in parentheses, though -- "as explained by the believers in it" -- is very interesting... not in the respect that what you say is right or wrong, but rather in the respect that many believers describe it in different ways -- which is only because many do not understand it scripturally.

Hell is not a literal "lake of fire" and people are not literally tortured there. It's residents exist there, and there is a life (an eternity) to be lived there. But what makes it hell, what makes it like torture, is that God is not there; He is not present. The unbeliever will be finally and eternally separated from God. He/she might then say, "Well hey, what's so bad about that?" Well...

But it's not that God is going to have people waterboarded or their toenails ripped out or horse-whipped (literally tortured) for eternity, and the "outer darkness" Jesus talks about is not literally a place of 0% light. Rather God will totally and utterly forsake them and abandon them to themselves -- this is outer darkness -- because that's what they chose.

In Luke 13:1-5, we are told what becomes of us, unless we are granted repentance: we perish or cease to exist! We are not tortured for eternity in a hell fire. This false doctrine has plagued many…

Well, those who are not granted repentance perish, but this does not mean "ceasing to exist," but rather existing totally away from and outside of -- to be utterly separated from -- the presence of God and His grace. Ultimately, God will give each person exactly what he/she has chosen.

(I)s there a solution? Yes, there is…We need to go to God (the source of all blessings) and earnestly ask for repentance. As well as, realize that it may not happen overnight (though it could!) and exhibit that we "truly" do want to change. Because, we can't have it both ways: enjoying sin and pleasing God and His Son…

Sure.

[ttruscott]

Hell is not a literal "lake of fire" and people are not literally tortured there. It's residents exist there, and there is a life (an eternity) to be lived there. But what makes it hell, what makes it like torture, is that God is not there; He is not present. The unbeliever will be finally and eternally separated from God. He/she might then say, "Well hey, what's so bad about that?" Well...

I have come to this same conclusion. Using physical things to describe spiritual things must be a metaphor.

At the same time, I have also come to accept that the outer darkness where all this is located must be outside of our created reality, which, unless it is infinite, must have an edge. GOD is not there and no created thing is there except the spirits of those condemned for their unforgivable crime. If it were within created reality I consider that the adage "A little leaven will leave the whole lump." to still be in play as the whole lump is easily seen as the whole of created reality.

But it's not that God is going to have people waterboarded or their toenails ripped out or horse-whipped (literally tortured) for eternity, and the "outer darkness" Jesus talks about is not literally a place of 0% light. Rather God will totally and utterly forsake them and abandon them to themselves -- this is outer darkness -- because that's what they chose.

Another small refinement... I could not see that anyone would choose hell so I sought the Spirit and decided I should accept that when they blasphemed the holy Spirit they didn't believe YHWH was GOD (as HE claimed) and so they did not believe in HIS warnings about hell or promises of heaven. They rejected HIM as their GOD knowing that if HE were ever to prove that HE was GOD Almighty, that they were indeed doomed to hell but so committed were they to their faith in HIS being a false god and a liar, they decided they would rather end in hell than take any chance they would have to be married to HIM in HIS false heaven and so they locked that door behind them for eternity.

So committed were they that they refused the escape clause the sinful elect used, that is, to bow to YHWH as their GOD and to put their faith in HIS Son as their savior from any and all sin and only after they were safe from the strictures of hell by doing this and becoming HIS elect, did they rebel and go their own way in defiance of the call for the judgement of the damned, idolizing their eternally evil friends over HE who they called GOD. Considering the use of this safety net by the sinful elect to show a disgusting lack of commitment, the Satanic hated the sinful elect as pikers and gullible fools.

Separating the sinful elect from the eternally sinful, breaking their idolatry of them, is the whole purpose of Earthly life.

I was also surprised to notice that the phrase that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven in Colossians 1:23...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. implied by the use of the past finished tense of 'proclaimed' to be a finished act of proclamation (thought oft repeated) and that it cannot have been completed as a proclamation to every creature under heaven unless every creature HE created heard it and so thinking creatures are newly created every moment on earth calls this finished proclamation a falsehood.

I think it was by this proclamation of the gospel that YHWH made HIS claims to HIS creation to be their creator GOD (without proof to not override their free will by a display of HIS glory) so HE could find every person in creation who would put their uncoerced faith in HIM and HIS Son and those who never would.

In Luke 13:1-5, we are told what becomes of us, unless we are granted repentance: we perish or cease to exist! We are not tortured for eternity in a hell fire. This false doctrine has plagued many…

Well, those who are not granted repentance perish, but this does not mean "ceasing to exist," but rather existing totally away from and outside of -- to be utterly separated from -- the presence of God and His grace. Ultimately, God will give each person exactly what he/she has chosen.

GOD can only grant repentance to those who are capable of being repentant. The sin of blasphemy against the holy Spirit is unforgivable because it puts the sinner outside of all mercy and loving grace by which they might come to repentance and all calls to repentance hardens their heart. They cannot repent as I consider that no one would be condmened by the loving GOD who could ever repent as HE would wait forever for them to come around...ie, hell would remain empty. This is the fallacy of the Arminian contentions...to think that HE would allow some to be damned who could be saved by HIS patience.

[FWI]

[Replying to post 10 by PinSeeker]

The reviewing of your comments shows no support for them from the records of the bible and without any support, they cannot be taken seriously. Firstly, the idea that man has an immortal soul is rejected…In Genesis 2:7, man clearly becomes a soul, not given one. Where, in Hebrew and Greek the English term "soul" means: a breathing creature!

The concept of the soul’s supposed immortality was first taught in ancient Egypt and Babylon. “The belief that the soul continues in existence after the dissolution of the body is…speculation…nowhere expressly taught in bible…The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended� (Jewish Encyclopedia, 1941, Vol. 6, “Immortality of the Soul,� pp. 564, 566).

Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it’s not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments.

Hence, the idea that those who reject God and His ways will continue to exist after death is unfounded…This certainly can be an "opinion," but there is no available facts to support such an idea…So, the concept of hell, which you gave is not biblically supported.

In John 3:16, the English term "perish" is used for the Greek word (G622) and is defined as: to destroy fully! Where, this Greek term is used about 39 times in the N.T. Therefore, the only human being, who has received immortality, is the Christ (1 Tim. 6:13-16). Where, most of those who have or will die (before the return of the Son of God) just cease to exist, at this present time…

Yet, the bible does give hope for life after "death" and that is through the resurrection of the Christ…

Well, yes there is a hell, and it is a real place; Jesus mentioned it as such many times.

I disagree! The references, which you may be referring to are related to the Greek word Geenna or Gehenna of fire. Which, was a real place outside the city of Jerusalem, during the time of the Christ and labeled the "Valley of Hinnom," where fires burned 24/7. This is where the filth, dead animals and certain human bodies were thrown into and burned completely. A fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction or ceasing to be…

[onewithhim]

Some people are freed from a sin habit immediately upon conversion. Others have to struggle. You sound like the latter, Lucian. But if you have accepted Christ and confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that he is Lord, risen from the dead, having atoned for your sins, then you are saved (Rom. 20:9). The fact that Christians will still commit sins upon conversion is evident from this verse, written by John to followers of Christ:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).

There is only one unforgivable sin and that is the rejection of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

No, Jesus actually said that "Every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against THE SPIRIT will not be forgiven. For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against THE HOLY SPIRIT, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come." (Matthew 12:31,32)

This means that whoever attributes to the demons what God's power has done, they have blasphemed the Holy Spirit. The religious leaders of Christ's time did this when they said that He got His power from Satan. (Matthew 12:24; John 8:48,52)

[onewithhim]

Does repeatedly struggling with the same sin over and over, after having repented many a time and having prayed to God for forgiveness, mean that you are not saved and that you will end up in hell? Let me know your opinions on this matter.

As has been said, you seem to be genuine in your efforts to align yourself with God's standards. It can be a long, hard struggle, but when you ask God for help, He will oblige you.

A person has to know who God is, and then that person can approach Him. Jesus said to his Father in a prayer, "This [means] eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (John 17:3, New American Standard Bible)

Does God have a name? We should know what that is, so we can know we are communicating with the "only true God." If you have a King James Bible, look up PSALM 83:18. Here it is plain to see who the only true God is, the one to whom Jesus himself prayed. He is the one who hears our prayers, and no one else. Jesus told us to pray to the Father only (Matthew 6:9,10).

You are headed in the right direction. Please see this website for more information: www.jw.org

[Tcg]

Does repeatedly struggling with the same sin over and over, after having repented many a time and having prayed to God for forgiveness, mean that you are not saved and that you will end up in hell? Let me know your opinions on this matter.

No, you will not end up in hell.


Given that your current approach of repenting many a time and praying for forgiveness has proven to be totally useless, you need to seek new avenues of support that may actually be helpful.


Prayer and repentance obviously are not the path to health.



Tcg