Wasn't Original Sin a good thing?

[polonius]

From what we know now it’s a rather good thing that death entered the world and that every living being inherited Adam’ guilt and died too.

If it hadn’t, everything which was alive before Adam sinned would still be alive. The earth would have been overly crowded by now, wouldn’t it?

When and by whom was it determined that we all inherited Adam's sin?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]


So I guess this is us "living the dream"...



To learn more in the effects of Adam's sin, please see the post "Who did Adam kill?" HERE
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 05#p909905

Adam's selfish act took the human family out of paradise without sickness, suffering, old age and death into the world we have now. Many millions pray for God's Kingdom to come as it is the means by which humanity can once again live as God originally purposed.


JEHOVAH'S WITNESS


RELATED POSTS

Won't the earth eventually become over populated if nobody dies?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 37#p832237

Were humans designed to live forever?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 82#p815882

How does the bible describe the earth under God's rule?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 68#p855568

Will all plants and animals live forever in paradise?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 06#p956006

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[JehovahsWitness]

When and by whom was it determined that we all inherited Adam's sin?

IT WAS DETERMINED BY ADAM THAT WE ALL INHERIT ADAM'S SIN THE MOMENT HE DECIDED TO REBEL AGAINST GOD




Sin was never part of God's purpose, he designed humans to pass on perfect human life through procreation. God explained to the first humans the conditions upon which their lives had been given, and what they had to do to protect their lives, namely obey God. At no point did God determine the children of Adam should inherit sin, that was wholely Adam's determination.

What is the purpose in life?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 433#896433][/quote]

Adam knew that by rebelling against God he was condemning himself to death. He also knew he was doing the same for all his unborn children, evidently he (Adam) did not care enough about his children to make a better decision, he thus "murdered" his own children by proxy, determining that rather than ensuring they inherit the potential to live for ever he would pass on sin and death (ie a sinful disposition that will inevitable lead to sickness, old age and death) to all he fathered.

JW




RELATED POSTS

Was the original sin a good thing?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 89#p959989

Adam's sin had what effect on his children?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 60#p909860

Who did Adam kill?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 05#p909905

Why do people die?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 21#p939821




NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[ttruscott]

Inherited sin is perhaps the biggest blasphemy against GOD's Loving, Righteous and Just nature that has seduced the most Churches in the world!

It seems like a theological necessity to answer how 1. we can be born, ie created, in sin but 2. GOD is not the author or creator of our sin. It fails spectacularly though it is accepted universally!

I consider that before a new person is created (according to orthodoxy) there is X amount of sin and sinners in the world. When new person is created, there is X+1 amount of sin or sinners in the world. How is their creation NOT RESPONSIBLE for the sin in the world? In inherited sin, we are sinners by HIS choice, not our own.

Do we believe HE could NOT have made us individuals not in Adam's race like HE did for Adam himself? Of course HE could but HE supposedly chose to create sinners! In Adam! For no reason!

Does it matter HOW the sinner is created in the world that exonerates the creator of that sin? Does making the newly created person inherit Adam's sin somehow exempt GOD HIMself from being the cause of their sin by making them human in Adam?

Did the (supposedly) newborn CHOOSE TO SIN? Not in the created on earth theology! So how can sin be adjudicated to this new person who (supposedly) never made a choice to sin yet? How can such a thing be called Loving, Righteous and Just? It claims HE creates evil people to suffer for this evil they did not choose nor can they escape.

Did not GOD create us perfect? Ecclesiastes 7:29 This only have I found: God created mankind upright, but they have gone in search of many schemes." upright: that which is right, pleasing in the eyes of, agreeable to...NOT evil, abhorrent and disgusting!

So this refers to ALL MANKIND as is written and every person created in HIS image CHOSE the many evil schemes that make them evil in HIS sight, or it refers to mankind in Adam as is a theological necessity to explain how we can be sinners at our creation. Why would GOD make HIS creation like this? HIS Bride? The apple of HIS eye and HIS beloved? The mind boggles at the how easily the church sold out HIS loving righteousness in favour of their commitment to the idea we are created at conception or birth.

All of this melts away if we consider that every person created in HIS image was created at the same time before the creation of the physical universe which we saw with our own 'eyes' Job 38:7 ...while the morning stars sang together and all the Sons of GOD shouted for joy? and in Romans 1:20.

During this time pre-earth we heard the gospel, Col 1:23, and we made our decision to put our faith in YHWH and HIS son and so became HIS elect, chosen to be HIS Bride, OR to put our faith is HIS being a false god and a liar, sinning the unforgivable sin and so passed over for election.

Inherited sin forced us to be sinners by HIS choice, not our own.
PCE theology, our pre-Conception existence supports belief we are sinners ONLY by our own desire (as per James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.� For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone. 14 But each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed.…)

...the bias in favour of our being created on earth must be recognized and discarded as the biggest attack upon HIS character ever supported by the Church. </rant>

Scripture supports that GOD could never create evil follow in my next post.

[ttruscott]

Scriptures and their exegesis to explain that HE would never create those HE knew would end in hell:
Deuteronomy 32:4 "The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

Psalm 145:17 The LORD is righteous in all His ways And kind in all His deeds.

1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
I contend that our GOD who is loving and kind, righteous and just and faithful to HIS creation to be this way for them WOULD NEVER create anyone to go to hell for any reason.

Does HE not do all for HIS own pleasure? Yet Psalm 5:4 You are not a God who takes pleasure in evil; with you the wicked cannot dwell. I contend that if this psalm is true, HE would never have created the evil reprobate for HIS pleasure because HE takes no pleasure in evil.

Also HE takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked or of anyone;
Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, so how can HE created them knowing their end in eternal death???

And finally, to will them to a life of evil, suffering and hell is contrary to Lamentations 3:33 For He does not willingly afflict or grieve the sons of men. If HE is not willing to punish evil, how could HE willingly create people to end in eternal punishment?

[polonius]

JW posted,

IT WAS DETERMINED BY ADAM THAT WE ALL INHERIT ADAM'S SIN THE MOMENT HE DECIDED TO REBEL AGAINST GOD

RESPONSE:

Really? What supporting evidence do you have for your assertion? In fact, what evidence do you have that Adam ever existed and the first man was a rational being?

Is it because you read it in the Old Testament. When was it written and by whom?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 6 by polonius]

Yes, the support for my conclusions are in the bible*.


Regards,

JW

* I believe the bible the Genesis account was written by Moses about 1513 BCE

[onewithhim]

JW posted,

IT WAS DETERMINED BY ADAM THAT WE ALL INHERIT ADAM'S SIN THE MOMENT HE DECIDED TO REBEL AGAINST GOD

RESPONSE:

Really? What supporting evidence do you have for your assertion? In fact, what evidence do you have that Adam ever existed and the first man was a rational being?

Is it because you read it in the Old Testament. When was it written and by whom?

Polonius, if you would read the material in the links that JW provided, you would have all your questions answered. There is a great deal of evidence in the Scriptures, and JW and I and some others here respect the Bible as the Word of God and our "evidence" comes from this Word, and is backed up by prophesy being fulfilled as well as historical accuracy.

The Old Testament was inspired by God, Who used various men to write down His thoughts. They wrote it from around 1,513 B.C. to around 443 B.C.

[polonius]

Onewithhim wrote:

Polonius, if you would read the material in the links that JW provided, you would have all your questions answered.

Yes, but obviously incorrectly.

There is a great deal of evidence in the Scriptures, and JW and I and some others here respect the Bible as the Word of God and our "evidence" comes from this Word, and is backed up by prophesy being fulfilled as well as historical accuracy.

Shall I start a thread documenting the historical inaccuracy of the Bible? It would be a rather long thread.

The Old Testament was inspired by God, Who used various men to write down His thoughts. They wrote it from around 1,513 B.C. to around 443 B.C.

Not true. See below, a reference evidently not written by fundamentalists.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament
Composition[edit]
The first five books – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, book of Numbers and Deuteronomy – reached their present form in the Persian period (538–332 BC), and their authors were the elite of exilic returnees who controlled the Temple at that time.[8] The books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel and Kings follow, forming a history of Israel from the Conquest of Canaan to the Siege of Jerusalem c. 587 BC. There is a broad consensus among scholars that these originated as a single work (the so-called "Deuteronomistic history") during the Babylonian exile of the 6th century BC.[9] The two Books of Chronicles cover much the same material as the Pentateuch and Deuteronomistic history and probably date from the 4th century BC.[10] Chronicles, and Ezra–Nehemiah, were probably finished during the 3rd century BC.[11] Catholic and Orthodox Old Testaments contain two (Catholic Old Testament) to four (Orthodox) Books of Maccabees, written in the 2nd and 1st centuries BC.
These history books make up around half the total content of the Old Testament. Of the remainder, the books of the various prophets – Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and the twelve "minor prophets" – were written between the 8th and 6th centuries BC, with the exceptions of Jonah and Daniel, which were written much later.[12] The "wisdom" books – Job, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Psalms, Song of Solomon – have various dates: Proverbs possibly was completed by the Hellenistic time (332-198 BC), though containing much older material as well; Job completed by the 6th century BC; Ecclesiastes by the 3rd century BC.[13]

[brianbbs67]

So, is oral tradition of no avail? Even though it has been proven quite accurate. The truth will out. I can't disregard what many generations have preserved without very good cause.