Is there any confirmation of 500 people seeing risen Christ?

[polonius]

1. Corinthians 15.3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

2. Question: Did any of these 500 and any of those they told or wrote to about this miracle write a report of what they had seen?

Or, in reality, had they seen anything unusual? Keep in mind Paul was not there nor yet a Christian.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

1. Corinthians 15.3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

2. Question: Did any of these 500 and any of those they told or wrote to about this miracle write a report of what they had seen?

The hyperskeptical obsession with written documents is due to historical ignorance. Paper and ink was not easily accessible; and one need only access them if other lines of communication were impossible. But other lines were easily accessible. If one merely think of the number of marriage invitations, funeral invitations, feast invitations, and compare these with the actual number of written reports making them, one will easily see that lack of written documentation means next to nothing. Do we think that nothing extraordinary occurred among the native americans because we lack papyrus?!

Or, in reality, had they seen anything unusual? Keep in mind Paul was not there nor yet a Christian.

The alternative is that either Paul lied, or Peter lied, or James, or Peter and James but not Paul; or Paul and Peter, or James and Paul. It would be refreshing if anyone claimed either of these. Instead we have a bunch of courtroom logic, where we shoul be applying historical methods.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

1. Corinthians 15.3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

2. Question: Did any of these 500 and any of those they told or wrote to about this miracle write a report of what they had seen?

The hyperskeptical obsession with written documents is due to historical ignorance. Paper and ink was not easily accessible; and one need only access them if other lines of communication were impossible. But other lines were easily accessible. If one merely think of the number of marriage invitations, funeral invitations, feast invitations, and compare these with the actual number of written reports making them, one will easily see that lack of written documentation means next to nothing. Do we think that nothing extraordinary occurred among the native americans because we lack papyrus?!

RESPONSE:THERE WAS LOTS OF WRITING MATERIAL AVAILABLE IN DOWNTOWN JERUSALEM. YOU MAY NOTED THAT PAUL AND THE EVANGELISTS PRODUCED A LARGE AMOUNT OF WRITING.

Or, in reality, had they seen anything unusual? Keep in mind Paul was not there nor yet a Christian.

The alternative is that either Paul lied, or Peter lied, or James, or Peter and James but not Paul; or Paul and Peter, or James and Paul. It would be refreshing if anyone claimed either of these. Instead we have a bunch of courtroom logic, where we shoul be applying historical methods.

.

RESPONSE: w HAVE COMMON SENSE AND NOTE THAT NON OF THE 500 AND PERHAPS THE THE HUNDREDS MORE THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD WROTE NOTHING ABOUT. HINT: NEITHER DID THE GOSPEL WRITERS. THEY HAD THEIR OWN VISION STORIES.

[polonius]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

1. Corinthians 15.3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

2. Question: Did any of these 500 and any of those they told or wrote to about this miracle write a report of what they had seen?

The hyperskeptical obsession with written documents is due to historical ignorance. Paper and ink was not easily accessible; and one need only access them if other lines of communication were impossible. But other lines were easily accessible. If one merely think of the number of marriage invitations, funeral invitations, feast invitations, and compare these with the actual number of written reports making them, one will easily see that lack of written documentation means next to nothing. Do we think that nothing extraordinary occurred among the native americans because we lack papyrus?!

RESPONSE:THERE WAS LOTS OF WRITING MATERIAL AVAILABLE IN DOWNTOWN JERUSALEM. YOU MAY NOTED THAT PAUL AND THE EVANGELISTS PRODUCED A LARGE AMOUNT OF WRITING.

Or, in reality, had they seen anything unusual? Keep in mind Paul was not there nor yet a Christian.

The alternative is that either Paul lied, or Peter lied, or James, or Peter and James but not Paul; or Paul and Peter, or James and Paul. It would be refreshing if anyone claimed either of these. Instead we have a bunch of courtroom logic, where we shoul be applying historical methods.

.

RESPONSE: WE HAVE COMMON SENSE AND NOTE THAT NON OF THE 500 AND PERHAPS THE THE HUNDREDS MORE THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD WROTE NOTHING ABOUT. HINT: NEITHER DID THE GOSPEL WRITERS. THEY HAD THEIR OWN VISION STORIES.

Abd Paul admits in Galatians that: "11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

A good way to get out of telling a fib, isn't it?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

1. Corinthians 15.3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

2. Question: Did any of these 500 and any of those they told or wrote to about this miracle write a report of what they had seen?

The hyperskeptical obsession with written documents is due to historical ignorance. Paper and ink was not easily accessible; and one need only access them if other lines of communication were impossible. But other lines were easily accessible. If one merely think of the number of marriage invitations, funeral invitations, feast invitations, and compare these with the actual number of written reports making them, one will easily see that lack of written documentation means next to nothing. Do we think that nothing extraordinary occurred among the native americans because we lack papyrus?!

RESPONSE:THERE WAS LOTS OF WRITING MATERIAL AVAILABLE IN DOWNTOWN JERUSALEM. YOU MAY NOTED THAT PAUL AND THE EVANGELISTS PRODUCED A LARGE AMOUNT OF WRITING.

Or, in reality, had they seen anything unusual? Keep in mind Paul was not there nor yet a Christian.

The alternative is that either Paul lied, or Peter lied, or James, or Peter and James but not Paul; or Paul and Peter, or James and Paul. It would be refreshing if anyone claimed either of these. Instead we have a bunch of courtroom logic, where we shoul be applying historical methods.

.

RESPONSE: WE HAVE COMMON SENSE AND NOTE THAT NON OF THE 500 AND PERHAPS THE THE HUNDREDS MORE THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD WROTE NOTHING ABOUT. HINT: NEITHER DID THE GOSPEL WRITERS. THEY HAD THEIR OWN VISION STORIES.

And Paul admits in Galatians that: "11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

A good way to get out of telling a fib, isn't it?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

1. Corinthians 15.3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

2. Question: Did any of these 500 and any of those they told or wrote to about this miracle write a report of what they had seen?

The hyperskeptical obsession with written documents is due to historical ignorance. Paper and ink was not easily accessible; and one need only access them if other lines of communication were impossible. But other lines were easily accessible. If one merely think of the number of marriage invitations, funeral invitations, feast invitations, and compare these with the actual number of written reports making them, one will easily see that lack of written documentation means next to nothing. Do we think that nothing extraordinary occurred among the native americans because we lack papyrus?!

RESPONSE:THERE WAS LOTS OF WRITING MATERIAL AVAILABLE IN DOWNTOWN JERUSALEM. YOU MAY NOTED THAT PAUL AND THE EVANGELISTS PRODUCED A LARGE AMOUNT OF WRITING.

Or, in reality, had they seen anything unusual? Keep in mind Paul was not there nor yet a Christian.

The alternative is that either Paul lied, or Peter lied, or James, or Peter and James but not Paul; or Paul and Peter, or James and Paul. It would be refreshing if anyone claimed either of these. Instead we have a bunch of courtroom logic, where we shoul be applying historical methods.

.

RESPONSE: WE HAVE COMMON SENSE AND NOTE THAT NONE OF THE 500 AND PERHAPS THE THE HUNDREDS MORE THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD WROTE NOTHING ABOUT.

HINT: NEITHER DID THE GOSPEL WRITERS. THEY HAD THEIR OWN VISION STORIES.

And Paul admits in Galatians that: "11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."

A good way to get out of telling a fib, isn't it?

[FWI]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

Did any of these 500 and any of those they told or wrote to about this miracle write a report of what they had seen?

Probably not…And for good reason: they would be inviting a death sentence or prison upon themselves for doing so!

Because, it is no secret that the Pharisees wanted to destroy this movement, in any way possible. They did their part in the execution of its leader. They also made sure that the tomb of the Christ was sealed, not only with a huge boulder, but also with a Roman seal of authority. Which, if anyone broke, they would receive the highest of penalties. They also requested that guards should be posted. So, it seems clear that the Pharisees (themselves) knew about the preached resurrection of the Christ and feared this occurring or at the least, the perception of it.

Paul (Saul) makes it clear that he searched out Christians to have them imprisoned and gave the "thumbs up" to have some killed! It only makes sense that he would also have destroyed any and all related materials found, which referenced the resurrection and other eye witnessed events. The Romans did their part as well, persecuting the Christians and destroying their records from about 64 A.D. to the beginning of the 4th century A.D…

So, there is plenty of good reasons why there are no (external of the bible) eyewitness accounts of the 500 (recorded) who witnessed the resurrected Christ. Yet, even with all of the efforts to destroy the events of facts, related to the Christ, the truth lives on…

However, what would the disbelievers say if such type of records were found? We only need to look back about 75 years and consider the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Hence, it surely could happen again and again, couldn't it?

[polonius]

Perhaps you overlooked the reality that among those in Jerusalem in 33 AD weremany Romans and Greeks neither of which were subject to control by Hebrew religious authorities.

At the very least a Roman citizen, perhaps soldier, would have informed Pilate that Jesus was still alive. What do you think Pilate would have done?

But if Paul's story about the 500 witnesses was false, this wouldn't have happened. Of course, since Paul's story was false, it didn't.

[FWI]

Perhaps you overlooked the reality that among those in Jerusalem in 33 AD were many Romans and Greeks neither of which were subject to control by Hebrew religious authorities.

I don't know what you are trying to imply here, but I'm not the one who has overlooked the facts about this event. The location of this gathering was not in Jerusalem, but in the Galilee region. This is where the Christ told his followers to meet him. The witnessing of the resurrected Christ (by about 500 disciples) was atop the summit of a mountain, which was east of the city of Safel, overlooking the land of Gennesaret and the Sea of Galilee. This lofty summit permitted a view of about 80 miles in every direction and was large enough for the attending group. So, the angel told Mary, who in turn told the apostles, who then relayed the message to the rest of the 500 disciples. There was no public announcement to the Romans or Greeks, so that they could attend…They weren't invited!

At the very least a Roman citizen, perhaps soldier, would have informed Pilate that Jesus was still alive. What do you think Pilate would have done?

Pilate, certainly was aware that the Christ was alive and there are no records that claim he did anything about it. The chief priests of the Israelites also knew, where they concocted a story that the followers of the Christ came and took the body away. Yet, the apostles ran away and hid themselves when the Christ was arrested, being in fear of their own safety…Thus, if these men feared the Israelite authorities, just image how much more they feared the Roman authorities…However, there would be nothing that Pilate could have done, even if he wanted to! As a matter of fact, Pilate washed his hands of the situation and stated that the blood of the Christ was put onto the Jewish leaders, not himself. Hence, he would have avoided getting involved. Pilate played his part in the story and that all he did. A review of John 19 could be helpful.

But if Paul's story about the 500 witnesses was false, this wouldn't have happened. Of course, since Paul's story was false, it didn't.

Well, Paul was only conveying the facts of the story (to the Corinthians), which was given to him by his fellow apostles and witnessed by them…So, to imply that Paul was making-up the story is incorrect. Since, it was suggested that the event occurred in Jerusalem and it wasn't, it is reasonable to consider that this suggestion may as well be incorrect. Unless, those who don't believe can supply some "real proof" to the contrary…But, since the story is true, they can't.

[polonius]

9 April 2019 Paul
FWI posted:

Well, Paul was only conveying the facts of the story (to the Corinthians), which was given to him by his fellow apostles and witnessed by them…So, to imply that Paul was making-up the story is incorrect. Since, it was suggested that the event occurred in Jerusalem and it wasn't, it is reasonable to consider that this suggestion may as well be incorrect. Unless, those who don't believe can supply some "real proof" to the contrary…But, since the story is true, they can't.

RESPONSE:

1. The Resurrection occurred three years before Paul converted. During this period he was in the East. He’s writing in about 53 a.d is addressed to the people living Corinth 870 miles from Jerusalem.

2. None of the 500 “witnesses�, any they told, nor the gospel writers ever wrote of this occurring.

3. This suggests that they did not hear the yarn or did not believe it.

4. Paul was not told about it by the Apostles. Paul says this himself. Remember, Paul got his knowledge from “personal revelation from Jesus Christ.

Paul writing in Galatians 1 regarding regarding these purported events

(Nor was I taught it;) rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. Or so Paul would have us believe!

My friend Ralph says he has visions too. In fact, all the time. He’s writing a book about them. You'll believe them without any question, right?

This all began when Ralph fell off his bicycle and hit his head on his way to Damascus (Oregon).