Does the soul split in two just after death?

[John Human]

Recently, I started a thread where I brought forth evidence that for the past 2000 years and more, orthodox Jews -- including Jesus as recorded in the Bible -- believed in reincarnation. (The thread is "Did Jesus and his followers believe in reincarnation?" at viewtopic.php?t=35420&start=10) Nobody challenged what I put forth.

However, Biblical references to the Day of Judgment and "eternal life" and the "kingdom of Heaven" seem to be a different scenario, as is the Catholic notion of Purgatory. How to reconcile this discrepancy? Could both reincarnation and Purgatory/Heaven be true? Does the soul split in two just after death?

P.S. Perhaps this question is like discussing the "Big Bang" or the first appearance of life on Earth: the ambiguous scraps of evidence don't get in the way of theorizing, speculation and strongly-held opinions.

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by John Human]

the soul can't be split it is the only thing which unites us.

[John Human]

[Replying to post 1 by John Human]

the soul can't be split it is the only thing which unites us.

It would seem that, upon death, the soul separates from the body. Then there would seem to be a further split of the soul itself into two parts.

For over two years I have been communicating with deceased ancestors and recording their stories. As far as I can tell, they are unanimous in stating that (1) just after death the soul splits into two parts; and (2) the part that remains, accessible to living descendants, has incomplete memories.

I talked about communicating with ancestors in post #12 of this thread in the "Random Ramblings" sub-forum: viewtopic.php?p=960282#960282

My father died a few months ago. In the months before he died, I shared some of my family's ancestral stories with him and told him about the soul splitting into two parts. A few days after he died, he told me the following:

Roger knew, as Roger died, that there would be a change. Roger remembered hearing that there was a separation. Roger experienced this separation. Roger knew to expect it. Roger also knew, because of his training, that it is best to simply accept. Roger did not fight. The separation took place. Roger experienced a flash of memories. Things in Roger’s life that Roger did not have any recollection of went through Roger’s mind. Roger does not think that these memories still exist. Roger is certain that aspects of his life are no longer available. Much of Roger’s intellectual interest is simply not available. This suggests that the purpose of what Roger is in now is not related. Roger hopes that, as Roger experiences what he is experiencing, John will continue to make notes.

My father will speak now, as I type: "Roger understands that people are encountering this idea of the separation of the soul. Roger dismissed it when his son John spoke of it. Roger now has to think that everyone will dismiss it. Roger understands that his son will explain what he thinks, without regard for the appearance of being crazy."

[Tcg]

Nobody challenged what I put forth.

I counted four posters who challenged what you put forth; bjs, ttruscott, marco, and 1213. Not that the number matters much, the number of challenges or the lack of challenges has nothing to do with the truth of the ideas being put forth.


Relying on dead folks messages to beef up your argument doesn't add any credibility, especially when they all 'speak' exactly like you.



Tcg

[John Human]

Nobody challenged what I put forth.

I counted four posters who challenged what you put forth; bjs, ttruscott, marco, and 1213. Not that the number matters much, the number of challenges or the lack of challenges has nothing to do with the truth of the ideas being put forth.

Indeed, and you seem to be unclear about what constitutes a challenge. Marco, for example, made the point that Jesus wasn't influenced by Greco-Roman culture. In response, I demonstrated that reincarnation was part of Hebrew culture. That is the essential point in question, which went unchallenged; see especially posts #11 and #13 on that thread, providing evidence for belief in reincarnation in Hebrew/Jewish culture through the centuries.

This point (posts #11 and #13) went unchallenged. Perhaps there is a viable challenge to the assertion that reincarnation was a commonly-accepted part of ancient Hebrew thought, as reflected by the Biblical quotes from Jesus regarding John the Baptist and Elijah?

Relying on dead folks messages to beef up your argument doesn't add any credibility

Do I detect a dismissive sniff...

Here's another source, recently discovered, that says the same thing that my ancestors have been telling me for the past two years:

Peter Novak, The One-World Religion of Humanity's Distant Past
https://grahamhancock.com/the-one-world ... ast-novak/

Thousands of years ago, people all across the globe believed virtually the same thing about what happened after death – that human beings possess not one, but two souls, which were in danger of dividing apart from one another when a person died.

Please understand that I'm not suggesting that people uncritically accept the contents of that article. I simply note, for further discussion, that the basic idea -- the soul divides at death -- also comes from a source completely unrelated to my ancestors. Two months ago, in an unrelated facebook discussion among astrologers regarding the correct horoscope of the USA, somebody mentioned Peter Novak, so I went and checked his website, and I was astonished to find his work on the "binary soul" splitting apart, similar to what my ancestors have said.

[Tcg]

Indeed, and you seem to be unclear about what constitutes a challenge.

Not at all. And as I stated, the facts are that there were 4 of them.



Tcg

[John Human]

Perhaps you could point out a single challenge, with a quotation, to posts #11 and #13 in that Jesus-reincarnation thread.

Back to the main topic of this thread, as mentioned above, two unrelated sources described a splitting or separation or division of the soul just after death. How about that...

[Tcg]

Perhaps you could point out a single challenge, with a quotation, to posts #11 and #13 in that Jesus-reincarnation thread.

No need. I've already stated the fact that there were four original challenges and have listed the names of the posters who placed them.


I've displayed that fact that your original claim is invalid. I have no responsibility to address your moving goalposts.



Tcg

[John Human]

Perhaps you could point out a single challenge, with a quotation, to posts #11 and #13 in that Jesus-reincarnation thread.

No need. I've already stated the fact that there were four original challenges and have listed the names of the posters who placed them.


I've displayed that fact that your original claim is invalid. I have no responsibility to address your moving goalposts.

You seem to be imagining "challenges" without being willing to give a quote from any of the four people that you mentioned. My basic and unchanging point on that thread has been that reincarnation has been part of orthodox Jewish thought for millennia, and nobody has challenged that basic point.

Once again, on THIS thread, my basic point is that two separate sources talk about the soul splitting or dividing or separating just after death.

[Tcg]

You seem to be imagining "challenges" without being willing to give a quote from any of the four people that you mentioned.

No imagination is needed. They are displayed on the thread you provided a reference to. All four of the posters I mentioned are represented as are their challenges to your claim.


You could of course put this discussion to a screeching halt by providing verifiable evidence of your claims concerning a split soul. Not quotes from folks, dead or living, but evidence. The starting point would be to provide evidence of a soul. If you ever manage that, we can then move onto to your claim that it splits at the point of death.



Tcg