GOD v. HUMANISM: a conundrum?

[2Dbunk]

Early on, wannabe theists invented God(s) to explain all of nature and the good life we experience. Then they (Christians) turn around, disdaining that nature as being too worldly, loving and worshipping Jesus instead of living (like Jesus needs our love -- is he that needy?). What kind of a life is that?


Give that another look: Doing good works takes a back seat to having faith in Jesus -- only God can do good, not necessarily man (though good works are encouraged).

If one has absolute faith in Jesus, He forgives all of one's sins regardless of how many sins have been racked up in that lifetime [except apostasy]. I can see why God and his followers have a problem with good works alone [HUMANISTS]-- they steal His thunder!


What kind of an ethic is that? This jealous and petulant god is hardly all that good!

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]


It seems that the only thing theists dislike more than a god other than their god doing great works to make humans moral, are humans that don't need a god to be moral. Of course those who need a god to be moral already display the fact that their morality is inferior. If you need a god to MAKE you moral, it's quite clear that YOU aren't.


Some theists will of course claim that the morality of atheists is somehow less than that of theists given that it isn't based on the objective morality they claim their god provides. They can't of course provide any evidence of this claimed objective morality or of their god, but that doesn't stop them from claiming it. They also fail to explain why so many in their ranks have a morality that is so lacking compared to humanists.


Apparently, morality is bad unless you perform some flawed version of it for any number of immoral gods.



Tcg

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 10 by Wootah]

Sorry that you obviously misunderstood my post #7 where I corrected myself for labeling all Christian theists as being ungrateful for this life. I put that onus on fundamentalists of all three Abrahamic religions. There are Christian fundamentalists who would kill if they "heard" God tell them to do it.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 12 by 2Dbunk]

Ok no worries.

IMO, if I were a God, I would be embarrassed to have worshippers gushing over me so much (maybe a little, but forever --ysssh. I would want them to pay less attention to me and get out there and help their fellow men and women who actually need help.

Since you don't gush over God how do you help others?

Isnt the evidence ample that most people dont mind others gushing over them? We all want to be worshipped.

IMO I think that theists are ungrateful for the life they have been awarded, winning the lottery of life against extraordinary odds and expecting even more of the same for all eternity. To me that is pure and simple gluttony of the exponential kind.

Are you arguing we shouldn't all want a better life?

[dio9]

[Replying to post 1 by 2Dbunk]

I don't have a conundrum God is expressing his and herself through humanity.

[2Dbunk]

[Replying to post 13 by Wootah]

Since you don't gush over God how do you help others?

It's simple -- when someone asks me to help them, I give them a hand. That is why I volunteer at our area museum (making exhibits for display), drive the VA van for Disabled American Veterans, and give honor guard salutes to deceased veterans. I get a lot of satisfaction out of doing those things.

Isnt the evidence ample that most people dont mind others gushing over them? We all want to be worshipped.

Sure, a pat on the back or a handshake of gratitude is nice. But I don't demand it, even expect it like some gods I know. I don't throw a hissy fit when I walk down the street and people don't bow down in front of me (which I think would get annoying after awhile, anyway). I know my wife loves me but I would be embarrassed if she made a public spectacle of worshipping me -- and she likewise if I acted that way towards her.

Quote by 2Dbunk:
IMO I think that theists are ungrateful for the life they have been awarded, winning the lottery of life against extraordinary odds and expecting even more of the same for all eternity. To me that is pure and simple gluttony of the exponential kind.

Are you arguing we shouldn't all want a better life?

That is our natural condition it seems. We all want more, for us and our children. What we want and what we can expect are two different things. That is the difference between dreams and reality. No danger in dreaming but if it extends to delusion, that is potentially harmful.

[Wootah]

[Replying to 2Dbunk]

That's all good tbh. I would only caution that we dont really know ourselves. It's easy to be good in this day and age and second you are not in a position to be worshipped so we often pretend we don't care for things we cant have anyway.

I see your response as refuting your initial argument so I don't have more to add.

[Tcg]

I would only caution that we dont really know ourselves.

It's not hard to know ourselves better than a fellow poster who doesn't know us at all.



Tcg

[Dimmesdale]

(like Jesus needs our love -- is he that needy?)

Exactly. What kind of a supposedly omnipotent God is hard-up for love, devotion, and obedience from mere little humans?

I think you have too low a view of human beings. We are not "mere little humans" comparable to insects, as it were. If you take seriously the Christian claim that we are Image Bearers of our Creator, then that confers a tremendous amount of dignity and worth to humans. Furthermore, if you take the moral law seriously, not from a human perspective, but from the perspective of God's infinite standard, then any breaking of it becomes quite heinous indeed. Then you begin to see how far we have fallen short of God's glory.

[1213]

Early on, wannabe theists invented God(s) to explain all of nature and the good life we experience. Then they (Christians) turn around, disdaining that nature as being too worldly, loving and worshipping Jesus instead of living (like Jesus needs our love -- is he that needy?). What kind of a life is that?

I think it would be good to understand in this what the love means in those parts of the Bible. It is not as people usually think love means. In this case it means this:

If you love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:15

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3

And the commandment is basically that we love our neighbor as ourselves. That is why I think it is really not about God or Jesus.

[bjs]

[Replying to post 6 by Mithrae]

Would this be the kind of "objective, statistically significant evidence" that you were referring to:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ity-study/

"Newly released data show that the religious among us are more likely to give to charities than those who do not identify with a faith tradition... Not surprisingly, religiously affiliated households are much more likely than nonreligious households to donate to religious institutions defined in the report as congregations, denominations, missionary societies and religious media. But religious people also contribute to other types of charity at similar or higher rates than their secular counterparts. The report says there is a 'staggering difference between the charitable giving practices of the religiously affiliated and those with no religious affiliation.'"