I know you don't know

[kcplusdc@yahoo.com]

A simple bible search will pull up a number of verses, in both the new and old testament that basically state God is unknowable.
His ways are not are ways, and the ussual parade of verses confirm the idea of God being outside our ability to quantify.
In fact it may be impossible to know any creature completely.
For example I can study ants my whole life yet still will never know them fully.
Further more it is important to point out that ants and man live on a level playing field, both exist and are subject to the rules of this universe.
God does not play by these rules.
Therefore it can logically be assumed that knowability would be even harder to achieve with God as he is not subject to the laws of universe and exists outside of time.

Having established the above idea how does one view the bible? Can it be viewed as a typical book? How do you take directions from someone who says you won't be able to understand them? How do you know that you are understanding Gods word correctly or missing the mark?

Surely one can not start a conversation with the idea that God is unknowable and then continue with this is what he wants from you?

As a believer how do you approach these concepts and what if any effects does it have on your understanding of the bible.

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 1 by kcplusdc@yahoo.com]

the idea of God being outside our ability to quantify

No, the idea is not outside of the realm of ideas, but then most would never claim to believe in an idea of God. They claim to believe in God. The problem is that there is, and never can be any referent for God. There is just the word.

Having established the above idea how does one view the bible? How do you take directions from someone who says you won't be able to understand them? How do you know that you are understanding Gods word correctly or missing the mark?

Trial and error, experimentation. This is what the covenant begins with. It ends with one throwing up their arms and surrendering.

Surely one can not start a conversation with the idea that God is unknowable and then continue with this is what he wants from you?

Unknowable doesn't preclude revelation, and revelation isn't necessarily perceived by the intellect at all. We tend to see things in terms of rationality. When things seem irrational, we believe we are looking at the opposite of rationality, but there is also the non-rational.

As a believer how do you approach these concepts and what if any effects does it have on your understanding of the bible.

I don't approach it conceptually in the first place. An omniscient or all-knowing God cannot be conceptualized. The simple fact is that by definition, an all-knowing God cannot be known. Transcendence is the negation of anything and everything, therefore it isn't understood in the traditional sense. The words are heard, but the deeper meanings are not received until one is ready to receive them.

Abraham is the father of the faith, and for good reason. He doesn't know God either, and because of this when God's will is revealed to him, he simply complies. When he is told to leave his home, he instructs his wife and servents to pull up stakes. They ask where they're going, and all he can say is, "I haven't got a clue". He only knows the way to go. He has no idea of any destination. Christ comes along and points out that at some point, one doesn't just know the way, they are "the way". This is the term appropriated by the early church. Ironically, to refer to oneself this way would be tantamount to blasphemy by most Christians. Go figure.

If you aren't already familiar with it, you might be interested in "The Cloud of Unknowing" which is a bit of a treatise on the apophatic approach. Another great resource for understanding what can't be understood are the works of Raimon Panikkar, most especially "The Rhythm of Being", and "Christophany".