New Covenant

[tryme]

This question comes from a reading of Jeremiah 31 , specifically verse 34 that says

‘They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,�

I was always taught that this was speaking of the new covenant especially the quote I will write my laws on their heart� but this all sounds to me a lot like the millennial kingdom in that No one has to even be taught any religion, and everyone is just born believes and knows. What do you think?

[myth-one.com]

Thanks for your opinion. Again.

That is not an opinion.

Those verses were quoted from the inspired words of God.

If you can prove otherwise, please quote verses which can do so.

Quote some verses to prove your private interpretation that man is born with everlasting life -- as Satan claimed!

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 198 by PinSeeker]

PinSeeker wrote:

Firmly established (many, many times over now) is the difference in your understanding of what the biblical concept of death is... and mine. That difference will not be resolved.

Why, do you think, will it not be resolved?

[PinSeeker]

That is not an opinion.

But it is.

Those verses were quoted from the inspired words of God.

Right, it's your opinion of what those inspired words of God say and mean.

If you can prove otherwise, please quote verses which can do so.

That's what I've done this whole thread, myth-one. I'm not going to re-hash a bunch of stuff for you; you can look back through the thread. But you disagree with what I've said, and that's okay with me.

Quote some verses to prove your private interpretation that man is born with everlasting life -- as Satan claimed!

Again, I have, this entire thread.

But my interpretation is not that "Satan claimed man was born with eternal life." Nor is that the interpretation of "so many Christians who have believed Satan's lie." That was not Satan's lie at all! Satan did not say, "You will have everlasting life," but rather, merely, "You will not die the day you eat," which was in direct refutation to what God had said. And what Satan says next backs this up; he says, "God knows that you will be like him in knowing good and evil." This is the deception. The irony is, Adam and Eve were already like God, made in His image and to that point without sin. Those who were meant to govern the earth on God's behalf instead rebel against Him and obey one of His creatures, thus dying spiritually; they became slaves of evil, dead -- just as God had said -- in their sin.

So, two things:

1. The irony here is, while you accuse everybody of "believing Satan's lie," you are the one disbelieving what God said, that Adam and Eve didn't really die in the very day they partook of the fruit. So actually, you're the one believing Satan, and that they didn't really die, in concert with Satan's deception and in disbelief of what God told Adam (that he would surely die).

2. This is actually a great picture of what will happen to unbelievers at the Judgment! Adam and Eve do not cease to exist physically, but rather are expelled from the garden-sanctuary and God's presence, and cut off from the source of life, they are in the realm of the dead. When Christ, the Second Adam, executes the Judgment, the expelling of unbelievers from God's presence -- their punishment -- will be final and complete... and eternal.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 198 by PinSeeker]

PinSeeker wrote:

Firmly established (many, many times over now) is the difference in your understanding of what the biblical concept of death is... and mine. That difference will not be resolved.

Why, do you think, will it not be resolved?

Does it not seem to you that the opinion difference between him and me will not be resolved? In this life, anyway... But hey, anything is possible, right?

[myth-one.com]

14. At physical death the believer enters immediately into eternal, conscious fellowship with the Lord and awaits the resurrection of his body to everlasting glory and blessing.

15. At physical death the unbeliever enters immediately into eternal, conscious separation from the Lord and awaits the resurrection of his body to everlasting judgment and condemnation.

Here's two fairly uncomplicated, simple verses:

For the wages of sin is death; . . .

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

My "opinion" of these verses is that the wages of sin is death, but God gave His only begotten Son so that those who believe in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

=========================================================================

Here's your version:

For the wages of sin is eternal, conscious separation from the Lord awaiting the resurrection of the physical body to everlasting judgment and condemnation.; . . .

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not enter immediately into eternal, conscious separation from the Lord awaiting the resurrection of their body to everlasting judgment and condemnation when they die; but enter immediately into eternal, conscious fellowship with the Lord awaiting the resurrection of their body to everlasting glory and blessing.

I've thought it over again, and my opinion has not changed.

Although I'll admit your version is much more complicated in comparison to the King James version!

Do you have any other evidence to support your claims?

[PinSeeker]

My "opinion" of these verses is that the wages of sin is death, but God gave His only begotten Son so that those who believe in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For the umpteenth -- and last -- time, there is absolutely no disagreement between us about the wages of sin. The disagreement, myth-one, is concerning what biblical death is. I say biblical death -- while it is certainly death -- it is not a ceasing of existence. You say it is.

I've thought it over again, and my opinion has not changed.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I suggest you keep thinking, and meditating on God's Word. As will I.

Aside from any and all of this, just continue to repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, who is our hope, our salvation, and our all. I intend to do the same. Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

My "opinion" of these verses is that the wages of sin is death, but God gave His only begotten Son so that those who believe in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

For the umpteenth -- and last -- time, there is absolutely no disagreement between us about the wages of sin. The disagreement, myth-one, is concerning what biblical death is. I say biblical death -- while it is certainly death -- it is not a ceasing of existence. You say it is.

I've thought it over again, and my opinion has not changed.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I suggest you keep thinking, and meditating on God's Word. As will I.

Aside from any and all of this, just continue to repent of your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, who is our hope, our salvation, and our all. I intend to do the same. Grace and peace to you.

There is no such thing as a "biblical death." You made that up or heard it from someone else.

All physical beings die.

Spiritual beings do not.

Thus, the only way any man or woman can live forever is to be born a second time (born again) as a spiritual being which cannot possibly die.

You have stated that at physical death the believer lives on eternally . . .

AND

You have stated that at physical death the nonbeliever lives on eternally . . .

That is, you believe all mankind will live on eternally!

So stop saying you believe that the wages of sin is death!

You do not believe that mankind ever truly dies.

Here is how you put it:

14. At physical death the believer enters immediately into eternal, conscious fellowship with the Lord and awaits the resurrection of his body to everlasting glory and blessing.

15. At physical death the unbeliever enters immediately into eternal, conscious separation from the Lord and awaits the resurrection of his body to everlasting judgment and condemnation.

Every death is a ceasing to exist.

That is why our first appointed "death" is not truly a death, because we will live again at the resurrection (both believers and nonbelievers). Thus our first death is called sleep, slumber, or rest.

Our second possible death is the one and only true death.

It is a ceasing to exist ever again.

[PinSeeker]

There is no such thing as a "biblical death." You made that up or heard it from someone else.

What 'death' means, biblically speaking, myth-one. Good Lord.

All physical beings die.

In this life, yes.

Spiritual beings do not.

True, and neither do un-spiritual beings, in the sense of ceasing to exist.

All physical beings die.

Duh.

You have stated that at physical death the believer lives on eternally... AND You have stated that at physical death the nonbeliever lives on eternally... That is, you believe all mankind will live on eternally!

In the sense that some (believers) will forever live in the presence of God and His glory and that some (unbelievers) will live forever totally separated from God and His glory, yes.

So stop saying you believe that the wages of sin is death!

You know, you're right, it's a given. So there's really no need to say it again, between you and me, anyway...

You do not believe that mankind ever truly dies.

Oh but I do. But death is not a cessation of existence.

Here is how you put it:

Yeah, "thanks." I know exactly how I put it. I'd be glad to do it again.

Every death is a ceasing to exist.

Nope.

That is why our first appointed "death" is not truly a death, because we will live again at the resurrection (both believers and nonbelievers). Thus our first death is called sleep, slumber, or rest.

But it is a death in the sense that it is a passing from this life.

Our second possible death is the one and only true death.

Well, it's eternal, as opposed to temporal, which is what the first death is. But still, neither is a ceasing to exist.

It is a ceasing to exist ever again.

Nope. Like I said a post or two ago, it will be an eternal banishment from the presence of God -- this time forever -- in the manner Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3), and in the same manner that Jesus will send those on His left away (Matthew 25). This is the Second Death.

Gee, I wonder how long I can keep him going?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 198 by PinSeeker]

PinSeeker wrote:

Firmly established (many, many times over now) is the difference in your understanding of what the biblical concept of death is... and mine. That difference will not be resolved.

Why, do you think, will it not be resolved?

Does it not seem to you that the opinion difference between him and me will not be resolved? In this life, anyway... But hey, anything is possible, right?

Yes, anything is possible with God.

With man, not so much.

Could you now please answer my question as best you can?

[myth-one.com]

You do not believe that mankind ever truly dies.

Oh but I do. But death is not a cessation of existence.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

So they exist, but know nothing as the Bible confirms.

They're brain dead, and might as well not exist.

It is a ceasing to exist ever again.

Nope. Like I said a post or two ago, it will be an eternal banishment from the presence of God -- this time forever -- in the manner Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3), and in the same manner that Jesus will send those on His left away (Matthew 25). This is the Second Death.

"An eternal banishment from the presence of God" is an oxymoron.

God is omnipresent or everywhere.

So one can not find a place where God is not.

No one can escape the presence of God -- except by their non existence.

The Second Death accomplishes this.

But "an eternal banishment from the presence of God" is not the wages for sin. The wages of sin is death.

"An eternal banishment from the presence of God" is one consequence of death. The dead are banished from everything.