It seems that theists are unaware of their burden

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Has Jesus come to lighten our burden>

Yes
3
38%
No
4
50%
Don't know
1
13%
 
Total votes: 8

2Dbunk
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It seems that theists are unaware of their burden

Post #1

Post by 2Dbunk »

In a concurrent thread in this C & A, Tam quotes scripture to support her assertion that Jesus came to us to lighten our load.

TAM says:
My Lord does not place heavy burdens upon people; His yoke is light.

“Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.� Matthew 11:28-30


I respond: how can one walk away from their Mother and father; their friends and family; give away all one's resources to the poor; resign away all reason in worldly things (science, medicine, economy, intimate love or whatever secular interests one might have); and REASON itself which may seek other answers about why we are here? The last puts an extreme burden on those many that have some doubts; and those of other religions who are faithful to their own deity; to the threat of everlasting death and torture by fire.


Is that called "lightening our load?" I can see someone with a room temperature IQ signing onto such a program, and they would be relieved that they will be provided for in heaven. But for those who are grateful for their ability to think, it is a slap in the face and certainly a worry to be reckoned with.


Theists how do you see my thought?

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Re: It seems that theists are unaware of their burden

Post #21

Post by Wootah »

Tcg wrote:
Wootah wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: .
Wootah wrote: All you need to do is believe in Jesus' saving grace. There is no work for you to do. If there is no work to do then that is a light burden indeed.
What a concept. It should be easy to sell to non-believers.

"Just believe what you do not believe, nothing else required, and you will be rewarded after you die."

No way to determine if the offer is legitimate.

No returning dissatisfied customers.
Those are secondary objections.

Only to those who determine the truth of claims solely on their emotional response to unverifiable claims. For those who refuse to accept unverifiable claims, these are primary objections.


Indeed easy believism is a problem in Christianity.

How does easy believism vary from your unverified claim that, "All you need to do is believe in Jesus' saving grace."


But compared to other monotheist religions (if we grant they are all paths to God)…

Why should we grant that? I've seen no reason presented to believe that there is a God for any of these religions to provide a path to.


Tcg
I try to deal with each thread on the topic. When Z raises secondary issues it demonstrates that he cannot win on the primary issue. If you are conceding the primary issue then sure we can discuss secondary issues as well.

My position can succumb to what I call easy believism which is why it can be a problem in Christianity. Easy believism is probably identifiable as Christians that want salvation and their sins.

Sometimes you grant someone's position in a debate to better undermine it. So in this example by even granting other faiths lead to salvation I can still demonstrate that Jesus burden is lighter. Atheists (indeed everyone) would make more impact by accepting more premises and then showing they are false than by denying premises upfront. Proof by contradiction is strong.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: It seems that theists are unaware of their burden

Post #22

Post by Tcg »

Wootah wrote:
When Z raises secondary issues it demonstrates that he cannot win on the primary issue.
He didn't raise secondary issues as I have already established. The unverifiable nature of your claim is a primary issue, unless of course one accepts the emotional appeal you seem to think is convincing.


Those of us who are rational aren't swayed by an emotional appeal and are eagerly awaiting a presentation of verifiable evidence which you have so far have failed to even attempt to present.



Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

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Re: It seems that theists are unaware of their burden

Post #23

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Wootah wrote: Sometimes you grant someone's position in a debate to better undermine it.
And, sometimes ‘you grant someone’s position’ when it has been shown to be better supported and presented. However, debate hints and practices might be better posted in viewtopic.php?t=9533
Wootah wrote: When Z raises secondary issues it demonstrates that he cannot win on the primary issue.
Is this an example of debating personalities?
Wootah wrote: Atheists (indeed everyone) would make more impact by accepting more premises and then showing they are false than by denying premises upfront. Proof by contradiction is strong.
It is certainly gracious to advise opponents how they should debate. Is that offered from a position of assumed superiority in debate ability?

I stand by
Zzyzx wrote:
Wootah wrote: All you need to do is believe in Jesus' saving grace. There is no work for you to do. If there is no work to do then that is a light burden indeed.
What a concept. It should be easy to sell to non-believers.

"Just believe what you do not believe, nothing else required, and you will be rewarded after you die."

No way to determine if the offer is legitimate.

No returning dissatisfied customers.
Is,“All you need to do is believe in Jesus' saving grace�, actual doctrine of Christianity or is it personal opinion?

How does one believe what they do not believe?

Perhaps 'belief' works best if taught to children before their judgment has developed sufficiently to evaluate what they are told to believe.
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Post #24

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 23 by Zzyzx]

No, I'm not debating personalities I mentioned you because you happened to be in the thread and ... sigh ... just read the thread.

This thread seems awfully simple. Are theists aware of their burden? The Christians are pointing out that they don't have a burden. Quite literally God did the work for us.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #25

Post by Overcomer »

Zzyzx wrote:
Perhaps 'belief' works best if taught to children before their judgment has developed sufficiently to evaluate what they are told to believe.
What about the adults who come to Christ including ex-atheists such as C.S. Lewis, J. Warner Wallace and Lee Strobel?

Lewis described his conversion in Surprised by Joy this way:

“You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England. I did not then see what is now the most shining and obvious thing; the Divine humility which will accept a convert even on such terms. The Prodigal Son at least walked home on his own feet. But who can duly adore that Love which will open the high gates to a prodigal who is brought in kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance of escape? The words “compelle intrare,� compel them to come in, have been so abused be wicked men that we shudder at them; but, properly understood, they plumb the depth of the Divine mercy. The hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men, and His compulsion is our liberation.�

https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/8 ... early-life

Strobel described his conversion this way:

I (studied) for a year and nine months until November the 8th of 1991, and on that day I realized that, in light of the torrent of evidence flowing in the direction of the truth of Christianity, it would require more faith for me to maintain my atheism than to become a Christian. Because to be an atheist I would have to swim upstream against this torrent of evidence pointing toward the truth of Jesus Christ. And I couldn't do that. I was trained in journalism and law to respond to truth. And so on that day, I received Jesus Christ as my forgiver, and as my leader.

http://www.washedred.com/content/?contentID=47

J. Warner Wallace's father was an atheist and raised him to be one as well. In other words, he was taught not to believe in God before, as you put it, he was old enough to reason for himself. Here is a video in which he explains how he applied the methodology he used as a cold case detective to the issue of Christ and Christianity and how this led him to Jesus:

https://notashamedofthegospel.com/testi ... christian/

As Wootah rightfully pointed out, Christians don't carry burdens -- at least, they don't have to as Jesus invited us to give all our burdens to him (Matt. 11:28). If Christians are carrying burdens, it's because they have failed to do that.

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Re: It seems that theists are unaware of their burden

Post #26

Post by John Human »

tam wrote: Martha, Mary, and Lazarus - all love deeply by my Lord and who opened their home to Him - had a home and were not told that they had to sell it. Mary had expensive perfume, and yet when Judas rebuked her for pouring it on Christ instead of selling it and giving the proceeds to the poor, Christ rebuked him and said that she had done a beautiful thing.
Ancient Demon speaks:
Ancient Demon was present at the coronation of Jesus as King. Ancient Demon was unaware of any criticism of Jesus.
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