The Glory Train to Eternity

[SallyF]

One of the most basic delights of belonging to a faith community is never having to admit that it's you and your group who are the ones who have got it wrong.

But when it comes ensuring that they have tickets on the right line to Eternity, most (or all) belief systems MUST have got it wrong.

After considering all these views on salvation and eternal life, it is hard to believe that they could ever be reconciled. Religions hold irreconcilable positions in the three aspects mentioned in the beginning of this article: the nature of the resources needed for attaining salvation, the actual way of being saved and the meaning of salvation from an eternal perspective.
https://comparativereligion.com/salvation.html

How can we possibly determine which religion station the Glory Train is going to pull in to …?

Dare we admit that we've bought the wrong ticket …?

[1213]

…Most, if not all, religions say the same sorts of things…

That is interesting claim, by what I know, it is not true.

In certain cheek-turning religions of peace and love, if you've bought the wrong ticket, the peace and love will turn into eternal damnation (or a lack of "God" if you feel you need to water it down these days because the whole damnation thing isn't selling too well anymore)

It is weird how nowadays, if one takes directly what the Bible tells, it is considered “watering down� the message.

But I think the whole idea of buying wrong ticket doesn’t fit to the Bible teachings. It is not about buying ticket, actually there is no work that you do to earn the ticket. In Bible eternal life is a gift for righteous. All don’t get the gift and I think it is ok, when unrighteous people don’t get the ticket.

[Tcg]

.. The fact that you've just changed yours is a perfect example of this fact.

Your pretense that the inconsistencies of the Bible, Christian theology, and your ever changing claims are my fault, doesn't hold up even under casual examination…

Please explain how have I changed my claim?

From post 3 - "It is not really much about belief..."

From post 5 - "Person who believes what Jesus told can become or be counted righteous."


Of course you don't bare all the blame for your changing claim, the Bible itself does that same. Anyone who tries to consolidate the contradictory claims the Bible makes can't help but be inconsistent and thus have to juggle claims in their attempt to justify the opposing viewpoints the Bible presents.



Tcg

[Elijah John]

One of the most basic delights of belonging to a faith community is never having to admit that it's you and your group who are the ones who have got it wrong.

But when it comes ensuring that they have tickets on the right line to Eternity, most (or all) belief systems MUST have got it wrong.

After considering all these views on salvation and eternal life, it is hard to believe that they could ever be reconciled. Religions hold irreconcilable positions in the three aspects mentioned in the beginning of this article: the nature of the resources needed for attaining salvation, the actual way of being saved and the meaning of salvation from an eternal perspective.
https://comparativereligion.com/salvation.html

How can we possibly determine which religion station the Glory Train is going to pull in to …?

Dare we admit that we've bought the wrong ticket …?

If a person believes that God judges on the basis of correct belief, then you had better be absolutely certain you get your theology right.

But if the truth of the matter is that God judges on the basis of how we treat our fellow humans, then all ethical religions ultimately lead to the Father. That is, if one actually practices the love of God and neighbor that every good religion teaches.

[Tcg]

In Bible eternal life is a gift for righteous.

Nope. In the Bible, the gift is righteousness.

• Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Of course one can't be blamed for not being able to keep it all straight, the Bible contains many conflicting accounts of what is needed to inherit eternal life. Given the importance Christians place on this teaching, it's a shame the Bible never gives a clear answer.



Tcg

[John Human]

.. The fact that you've just changed yours is a perfect example of this fact.

Your pretense that the inconsistencies of the Bible, Christian theology, and your ever changing claims are my fault, doesn't hold up even under casual examination…

Please explain how have I changed my claim?

From post 3 - "It is not really much about belief..."

From post 5 - "Person who believes what Jesus told can become or be counted righteous."


Of course you don't bare all the blame for your changing claim, the Bible itself does that same. Anyone who tries to consolidate the contradictory claims the Bible makes can't help but be inconsistent and thus have to juggle claims in their attempt to justify the opposing viewpoints the Bible presents.



Tcg

It seems to me that Tcg has jumped to a false conclusion about 1213's point of view, which contains a nuance that Tcg hasn't tried to clarify.

If I remember correctly, Jesus is represented as saying that if you believe in me, you will follow my commandments. And I think it is fair to say that people who follow the two basic commandments of Jesus can be counted among the "righteous."

[Tcg]

If I remember correctly, Jesus is represented as saying that if you believe in me, you will follow my commandments.

If you remember correctly, then you should be able to present where Jesus said this.


Jesus is reported to have said this:

• John14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands."

This of course is a command which doesn't match your memory at all. Of course if I have forgotten something, I'm sure you will present a reference that corrects my memory.



Tcg

[Elijah John]

If I remember correctly, Jesus is represented as saying that if you believe in me, you will follow my commandments.

If you remember correctly, then you should be able to present where Jesus said this.


Jesus is reported to have said this:

• John14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands."

This of course is a command which doesn't match your memory at all. Of course if I have forgotten something, I'm sure you will present a reference that corrects my memory.



Tcg

You're splitting hairs, Tcg. The essence of both statements is very similar, even though not verbatim identical.

[1213]

From post 3 - "It is not really much about belief..."

From post 5 - "Person who believes what Jesus told can become or be counted righteous."

Thank you, I was little worried that I had said something wrong, but there is the word “much�, which means that belief is not meaningless. Person who is righteous, does righteous actions and one righteous thing is to believe what Jesus said. There really is no contradiction.

[1213]

In Bible eternal life is a gift for righteous.

Nope.

It is weird how you can make such claim, all though Bible clearly says this:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

In the Bible, the gift is righteousness.

• Romans 5:17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Of course one can't be blamed for not being able to keep it all straight, the Bible contains many conflicting accounts of what is needed to inherit eternal life. Given the importance Christians place on this teaching, it's a shame the Bible never gives a clear answer.

Righteousness and eternal life can both be gifts. There is really no contradiction in that. I am sorry, if you don’t get clear answers, for me Bible is clear and without errors.

[Tcg]

If I remember correctly, Jesus is represented as saying that if you believe in me, you will follow my commandments.

If you remember correctly, then you should be able to present where Jesus said this.


Jesus is reported to have said this:

• John14:15 “If you love me, keep my commands."

This of course is a command which doesn't match your memory at all. Of course if I have forgotten something, I'm sure you will present a reference that corrects my memory.



Tcg

You're splitting hairs, Tcg. The essence of both statements is very similar, even though not verbatim identical.

I quoted precisely what Jesus is reported to have said and it doesn't in any way match John Human's memory of what he thought Jesus reportedly said. If you can provide a reference to back up his claim, I'd be very interested to see it. Until then, my objection remains.



Tcg