How can the son of David also be his Lord?

[Checkpoint]

Perhaps you can solve the conundrum Jesus put to the Pharisees that completely stumped them?

Matthew 22:

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,

42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?�

“The son of David,� they replied.

43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44  ‘YHVH said to my Lord:

“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.� ’

45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?�

46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

The Pharisees couldn't come up with any answer.

How about you?

What do you think?

How would you answer him?

[brianbbs67]

Let's go to the Koine

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/psalms/110-1.htm

NASB Lexicon
NASB © Hebrew Strong's Origin
A Psalm of David. The LORD יְהוָ֨ה
(Yah·weh) 3068: the proper name of the God of Israel from havah
says נְ�ֻ֤�
(ne·'um) 5002: utterance from an unused word
to my Lord:
136: Lord an emphatic form of adon
"Sit שֵ�֥ב
(shev) 3427: to sit, remain, dwell a prim. root
at My right hand לִֽימִינִ֑י
(li·mi·ni;) 3225: right hand from an unused word
Until עַד־
(ad-) 5704: as far as, even to, up to, until, while from adah
I make �ָשִ�֥ית
(a·shit) 7896: to put, set a prim. root
Your enemies
340: to be hostile to a prim. root
a footstool הֲדֹ֣�
(ha·dom) 1916: a stool, footstool from an unused word
for Your feet." לְרַגְלֶֽיךָ׃
(le·rag·lei·cha.) 7272: foot of uncertain derivation

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]

Not saying that the writer of the Psalm was mistaken. But that the attribution to King David of that Psalm is likely erroneous.

Yes, of course I could be mistaken. And so could Jesus. And he was, (Matthew 16.28) or if not Jesus, Matthew was.

Yeah right.

In view of what you claim, how would you answer Jesus?

First, let's keep this between you and me. If you accept the conventional Christian interpretation, then answer me this. Where else does David refer to the Messiah in the Psalms? I know of no other instance if indeed this is actually a Davidic Psalm and David is indeed referring to the Messiah. But the Psalm makes far more sense, and is in keeping with the rest of the Psalms if the "Lord" in question, the second "Lord" is actually King David himself, and the Psalm was penned by another.

David was King, the only "LORD" David knew was YHVH.

I were one of Jesus contemporaries, I would would not yet have been able to say to Jesus "you've been wrong before" because the "some standing here" generation would still have been around. (Matthew 16.28). The jury would have still been out on that one. But I would said that I think the Psalm was mistakenly attributed to David. And I doubt very much that it was Jesus who was wrong either in Matthew 16.28, or here. I think more likely it was Matthew, and his attempt to revise Scripture to fit his Messianic agenda for Jesus.

But in retrospect it is clear that "Jesus" was wrong about the timing of his 2nd coming.

Your post shared your musings, mostly allegations of mistakes made by others.

It did not answer his question, or mine.

Never mind, I have little idea of what my answer would have been either, if any.

So, you accept that this Psalm does portray that YHWH invited King David to "sit at My right hand until..."?

Grace and peace.

[Elijah John]

So, you accept that this Psalm does portray that YHWH invited King David to "sit at My right hand until..."?

Grace and peace.

And to you. Yes, that is how I understand it. The second "Lord" is King David, not the Messiah.

I realize the Psalm is attributed to David, but sometimes attributions are wrong. The Psalm makes more sense to me if David is one of the subjects, not the author of the Psalm.

But if indeed the author of the Psalm is King David, the Psalm would make no sense ro me, even with Jesus elusive interpretation. My theory would be shot. And besides, David knew no LORD except for YHVH. Where did David call anyone else "Lord" except perhaps for King Saul or Saul's predecessor.

And since the very notion of the Messiah is founded on King David as prototype, it is unlikely that David himself had any notion of a future Messiah. The only "Lord and Savior" David knew was YHVH.

[Checkpoint]

So, you accept that this Psalm does portray that YHWH invited King David to "sit at My right hand until..."?

Grace and peace.

And to you. Yes, that is how I understand it. The second "Lord" is King David, not the Messiah.

I realize the Psalm is attributed to David, but sometimes attributions are wrong. The Psalm makes more sense to me if David is one of the subjects, not the author of the Psalm.

But if indeed the author of the Psalm is King David, the Psalm would make no sense ro me, even with Jesus elusive interpretation. My theory would be shot. And besides, David knew no LORD except for YHVH. Where did David call anyone else "Lord" except perhaps for King Saul or Saul's predecessor.

And since the very notion of the Messiah is founded on King David as prototype, it is unlikely that David himself had any notion of a future Messiah. The only "Lord and Savior" David knew was YHVH.

So, how do you understand YHVH's invitation to King David to "sit at My right hand until"?

When did it/will it, happen?

[Elijah John]

So, how do you understand YHVH's invitation to King David to "sit at My right hand until"?

That's a good question. I think that sitting at YHVH's right hand bit is metaphorical. That YHVH was inviting David to "rest in the LORD" and let God fight for him. It would not be the first time a metaphor was literalized by conventional Christianity. ("This is my body..." etc.)

This Psalm is enigmatic and like a puzzle. Some missing pieces, and some that don't fit.

Do you have any answers to the questions in my previous post?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 15 by Elijah John]

_________

Do you have any answers to the questions in my previous post?

Perhaps - if I knew what those questions were!

Which post were they in?
_________

[Overcomer]

The words used for "lord" in Psalm 110 are different. The first word is "Yahweh" and refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph. The second word is "Adonai" and refers to Christ. In Matt. 22:44, Jesus asks about the identity of the Messiah in relationship to David and the Pharisees reply that he is the Son of David. In fact, Son of David was a common name for the Messiah in Christ's day.

So Jesus is trying to make them see that, if the Son of David is the Messiah, and David calls him "Adonai", then he must be more than a physical descendant of David. According to Psalm 110, this "Adonai", the Messiah, was alive at the same time that David was and it's obvious that he was greater than David because David called him "Adonai".

The Pharisees don't answer because Jesus has set it up so that the only sensible and intelligent answer is one that they don't want to give. Just prior to this, they tried to trick him with a question about taxes. Then the Sadducees had tried to trick Jesus with a question about multiple wives and life after death -- a particularly silly question coming from the Sadducees as they didn't even believe in life after death. So the Pharisees, hearing about the failure of the Sadducees to trick Jesus, tried to do so again themselves with a question about the greatest commandment. And then it was Jesus' turn to confront them with a question that shut them up.

Note that Psalm 110 is talking about Jesus as "Adonai" because it describes him in the following ways:

� He sits at God’s right hand (verse 1)
� He will triumph over all His enemies and rule over them (verses 1–2)
â—� He will lead a glorious procession of troops (verse 3)
� He will be “a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek� (verse 4)
� He will have divine power to crush kings, judge nations, and slay the wicked (verses 5–6)
â—� He will find refreshment and be exalted (verse 7)

These things all refer to Christ and are borne out in other Scripture passages in both the New Testament and the Old. Take, for example, the fact that he sits at God's right hand. See here for the significance of that:

https://www.gotquestions.org/right-hand-God.html

Good question, Checkpoint. Thanks for asking it.

[Checkpoint]

The words used for "lord" in Psalm 110 are different. The first word is "Yahweh" and refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Joseph. The second word is "Adonai" and refers to Christ. In Matt. 22:44, Jesus asks about the identity of the Messiah in relationship to David and the Pharisees reply that he is the Son of David. In fact, Son of David was a common name for the Messiah in Christ's day.

So Jesus is trying to make them see that, if the Son of David is the Messiah, and David calls him "Adonai", then he must be more than a physical descendant of David. According to Psalm 110, this "Adonai", the Messiah, was alive at the same time that David was and it's obvious that he was greater than David because David called him "Adonai".

The Pharisees don't answer because Jesus has set it up so that the only sensible and intelligent answer is one that they don't want to give. Just prior to this, they tried to trick him with a question about taxes. Then the Sadducees had tried to trick Jesus with a question about multiple wives and life after death -- a particularly silly question coming from the Sadducees as they didn't even believe in life after death. So the Pharisees, hearing about the failure of the Sadducees to trick Jesus, tried to do so again themselves with a question about the greatest commandment. And then it was Jesus' turn to confront them with a question that shut them up.

Note that Psalm 110 is talking about Jesus as "Adonai" because it describes him in the following ways:

� He sits at God’s right hand (verse 1)
� He will triumph over all His enemies and rule over them (verses 1–2)
â—� He will lead a glorious procession of troops (verse 3)
� He will be “a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek� (verse 4)
� He will have divine power to crush kings, judge nations, and slay the wicked (verses 5–6)
â—� He will find refreshment and be exalted (verse 7)

These things all refer to Christ and are borne out in other Scripture passages in both the New Testament and the Old. Take, for example, the fact that he sits at God's right hand. See here for the significance of that:

https://www.gotquestions.org/right-hand-God.html

Good question, Checkpoint. Thanks for asking it.

Thanks Overcomer, you are welcome.

Good explanation from you.

Thank you also for starting the thread on "this generation".

You ended that post with such a good question.


Grace and peace to you.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 15 by Elijah John]

_________

Do you have any answers to the questions in my previous post?

Perhaps - if I knew what those questions were!

Which post were they in?
_________

Well, I should have worded it as "points" or "responses" rather than "questions". But I think there is an unanswered question I posed in post # 10. Where does the Psalmist call the 2nd Lord "Son"?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 15 by Elijah John]

_________

Do you have any answers to the questions in my previous post?

Perhaps - if I knew what those questions were!

Which post were they in?
_________

Well, I should have worded it as "points" or "responses" rather than "questions". But I think there is an unanswered question I posed in post # 10. Where does the Psalmist call the 2nd Lord "Son"?

Nowhere.

He doesn't call him "David" either, or any name other than "Lord".