John 5 23 - divinity claim?

[Wootah]

Jesus said: John 5 23: that all may honour the Son, just as they honour the Father.

Does any being that is not God deserve to be honoured equally with God?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 77 by Wootah]


QUESTION DOES JOHN 5:23 SUPPORT THE NOTION THAT JESUS AND HIS FATHER ARE EQUAL IN POWER, AUTHORITY AND POSITION?

JOHN 5:23

so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.- NWT

It seems to me your entire arguement rests on the following points...

#1 Honour has to be exclusive to God

#2 "JUST AS" (In the same manner) implies the object of a verb must be equal in authority position or power.

Both of the above have been demonstrated in this thread to be false (See links below).



JW




HONOUR

Is honour offered exclusively to God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 207#967207

If honour is indivisible, must it also be exclusive and absolute (Tim) ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 662#967662

Do the Pharisitical conclusions in John 5 lend to a reading that Jesus did in fact claim equality with God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 408#967408

JUST AS

What does "just as" mean in the original GREEK? Identical or similar? (Tigger)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 272#967272

What does "just as" mean in the original GREEK? Identical or similar? (JW)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 409#935409

Is "just as" the same as "just as MUCH"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 964#967964

Does the word "manner" mean the object of a verb must be equal in power or authority?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 112#968112

Does due respect/honour mean the object of a verb must be equal in power or authority?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 013#968013

RELATED POSTS

So called "trinity proof texts" DEBUNKED
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 594#936594

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 79 by JehovahsWitness]

Clearly i think honour is not exclusive to God.

I've talked about honour in many contexts in this thread.

Can you admit that much?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 77 by Wootah]

Manner does not mean EQUAL, it means style or fashion or method. So the same manner does not imply that the object of a verb is equal in authority, position, weight, responsibility, or power. So if one speaks to someone in the same manner and that manner is ... say, is polite it means you are equally polite to both King and Pauper. It does not imply the king and Pauper are equal or the same.


JW

If I am polite to a king just as i would a pauper what is the difference to the king?

I think I see the issue. Perhaps our modern culture has lost touch with the concept of honour. We really don't respect God or Kings as our forebears. If you or I showed th ed same level of honour to a royal figure in history as to a pauper we would lose our lives.

You can only imagine your arvument because you arent properly recognising the difference between king and pauper and who can blame you. We all live in modern democracies.

Lets try to get to reality of the situation. God is King times infinity times infinity times infinity.

Can anything compare? Can anything logically claim or use the word just in any manner that makes sense in comparison to God?

[2timothy316]

I think I see the issue. Perhaps our modern culture has lost touch with the concept of honour. We really don't respect God or Kings as our forebears. If you or I showed th ed same level of honour to a royal figure in history as to a pauper we would lose our lives.

Yet that is exactly what Jesus did. Those viewed as lower and put them above even himself. In fact Jesus died for mankind thus honoring mankind. Beings that are lower than him yet putting his life in place of ours. Show me one of these 'honor me more than a pauper or lose you head kings' that did that?

This time you say of a person losing their head for honoring pauper as a king should be done away with and should never return. Seems the Bible is very much follow Jesus example not your wicked king that lacks humility example. We are not slaves to the traditions of men's kings but to Christ are we not? What does the Bible say?

“Honor men of all sorts, . . . have honor for the king.� (1 Peter 2:17) “Render to all their dues, . . . to him who calls for honor, such honor.� (Romans 13:7)

Tim is honouring everyone and making honour mean nothing.

Why do you say that I make honor mean nothing when I constantly point to the Bible. It's the Bible that says, "Honor men of all sorts". I didn't write that. So I guess you mean the Bible is calling honor nothing.

I honor men of all sorts because it's a command not from a human king but from God's Word. I don't know how to honor a pauper without upsetting a king, so I guess I'd lose my head back in the dark ages.

[polonius]

I am being honest.. and no, I would not think that Trump was claiming to be God. I would think that Donald Trump was feeling a bit full of himself, but I would not think that he was claiming to be God. Not unless he stated so directly.

RESPONSE: Did you hear God state so directly? Or did you just read that somewhere?

I would assume that he was (erroneously) claiming to speak for God, as a prophet or [/b]representative or some such thing. We don't even need a hypothetical because there are religions that make that kind of claim even now; telling people to listen to them, that listening to them is the same as listening to God; that leaving them means leaving God.

That claim is as untrue of religion as it would be of Trump.

We can know this because God told us to listen to His Son.

RESPONSE: You know what happens when you "assume" don't you? Do you hear God telling you things as you seem to be saying.

[polonius]

Many years ago I was working as a laboratory technician collecting blood samples on a hospital ward.

I asked one patient his name. He replied "St Peter."

I then asked who told him he was St. Peter. He replied "God did."

Another patient a few beds down sat up and exclaimed, "I did not!!!.

[Wootah]

[Replying to polonius]

Am I in the wrong sub forum? Isnt this one for assuming Bible and God? I honestly forget sometimes.

In any case it should be clear that this thread assumes God is true and the Bible is true.

Please respect that.

[Wootah]

New question: what does it mean if I honour my wife just as my dog?

[Tcg]

New question: what does it mean if I honour my wife just as my dog?

I'd hope it means that you have a really great dog and a really great wife. It certainly wouldn't mean that your wife is a dog or that your dog is a wife.



Tcg

[Checkpoint]

New question: what does it mean if I honour my wife just as my dog?

I have little idea, but here are two possibilities; so I am trying!.

You perhaps have a problem with reality.

Or perhaps a problem with your marriage vows.

Maybe you could tell us what you mean?

Grace and peace to you.