What's better? This world or the "world to come"?

[Jagella]

Christian apologists, being evangelists, want to convert people to Christianity. And since the inception of Christianity, Christians have tried to entice people to convert to their religion by offering what Christians think people will want, a better world. Obviously, what constitutes a better world is a matter of opinion.

Question for Debate: Is the Christian heaven your idea of a better world, a world you would want to live in, or would you rather live in this world?

I prefer this world. Yes, it can be terrible at times, but I've managed to survive for fifty seven years in it. I've even had a lot of fun at times. I enjoy all the different kinds of people from all the different cultures including Christians. We've built an amazing world-wide civilization that supports billions of people. Surely no other species in all of the history of the earth has accomplished anything nearly as awesome as we have.

As for the world promised by Christianity, at the least it looks boring, and at most it looks horrible to me. Yes, streets of gold might be novel for a day or two, but it would get old after that time. In other ways it would be terrible. I would hate eternally praising a cosmic devil that I know murdered billions of people and engaged in world-wide destruction.

[JJ50]

I have no wish to exist in an afterlife once I am dead. A heaven inhabited by the Biblical god would be my idea of hell.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

You are right in this. There is a lot of good in this world. But Christians and other Theists believe that the good in this world is, at best, only a taste of Heaven.

Also, you seem to draw your portrait of a "boring" Heaven from the book of Revelation. A book that many Christians do not take as literally as you seem to be doing here.

And your characterization of God is a an offensive strawman. If there is a God, why not credit Him with the good that you enjoy in this life? That would be a good place a start. Are you so absolutely certain that there is no God and that He is not responsible for the good that you enjoy, even in this life? The God who makes the sun shine on the just and the unjust alike, and also on the believer and the unbeliever as well?

[Jagella]

I have no wish to exist in an afterlife once I am dead. A heaven inhabited by the Biblical god would be my idea of hell.

Considering that the Christian heaven was created by Christians with limited imaginations, it's not able to appeal to everybody. From what I've read in the New Testament, it actually looks bad to me. I'd rather just stay here. If God exists, then I'd prefer he grant me great health and fitness, a job I love, a nice neighborhood to live in with friendly, trustworthy neighbors, and lots of sexy women in swimsuits.

[Jagella]

...you seem to draw your portrait of a "boring" Heaven from the book of Revelation. A book that many Christians do not take as literally as you seem to be doing here.

Yes, I'm well aware that many Christians trash much of the Bible including Revelation. Heck, if you take Revelation at face-value, then it's obviously either wrong or impossible to judge, and you can't have that! Be that as it may, I'm not referring only to Revelation but to any Biblical description of the afterlife. None of it appeals to me.

And your characterization of God is a an offensive strawman.

Now you know how people feel when Christians refer to non-Christian beliefs and practices as "of the Devil."

If there is a God, why not credit Him with the good that you enjoy in this life? That would be a good place a start.

Any person who grants good fortune to some while allowing others to suffer is not praiseworthy, in my opinion.

Are you so absolutely certain that there is no God and that He is not responsible for the good that you enjoy, even in this life? The God who makes the sun shine on the just and the unjust alike, and also on the believer and the unbeliever as well?

Hmmm. Your god seems to act as if he was no god at all. While I wouldn't say I'm certain that no gods exist, it seems to me that the world we live in is like a world with no gods. In such a world we might expect there to be no apparent reason for "fortune" at all--people's lots would just be a matter of dumb luck. So whatever good I have is something either I, other people, or chance provides. I see no gods in "the loop."

[kcplusdc@yahoo.com]

As a believer i really cant have an opinion on something i have not experienced yet so i will comment on the here and now, as now is all i have ever experienced.
Be grateful for all things, even trials. Be at peace with all things.
Your control is an illusion and as such you are freed from the God seat. Enjoy the ride. Smell the roses.
You can not be present with God if your hope is in tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes, it is an illusion. Come what may.

[Zzyzx]

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Is the Christian heaven your idea of a better world, a world you would want to live in, or would you rather live in this world?

I prefer to live in the real world rather than fantasize about living in (or for) a mythical 'afterlife when you die'. Promises made by religionists are no more convincing to me than promises of conmen in general.

[Jagella]

I prefer to live in the real world rather than fantasize about living in (or for) a mythical 'afterlife when you die'.

I see we agree. One advantage of this world over the Christian heaven is that you don't need to die to get here.

[1213]

…Question for Debate: Is the Christian heaven your idea of a better world, a world you would want to live in, or would you rather live in this world?…

Yes.

As for the world promised by Christianity, at the least it looks boring, and at most it looks horrible to me. Yes, streets of gold might be novel for a day or two, but it would get old after that time. In other ways it would be terrible. I would hate eternally praising a cosmic devil that I know murdered billions of people and engaged in world-wide destruction.

If the streets are gold, they are durable, no need for constant repairing.

I think this is why the end solution will be good, you don’t want to be with God, and you don’t have to be there. Still, according to your own words, this has been nice life to you. Everybody seems to win and everybody seems to have reason to thank and praise God.

However, I don’t think God murders anyone. Murder is unlawful killing. God has given life, so He has right to decide how long life He gives. If He doesn’t give eternal life for all, it is not a murder and He have every right to decide it as He wants. He has decided to give eternal life for righteous, according to the Bible. I think it is good. If unrighteous people would get eternal life, they would turn it into eternal suffering for all, which I think would not be good.

I think we can see the “fruits� of unrighteousness and godless way in Libya and Syria for example. If people who cause such things would be allowed to live eternally, it would be constant sorrow for righteous people.

[JJ50]

Should an afterlife exist, no one has any idea what it might be like, it might be much worse than the life we have on Earth.