Sharing In The Building

[William]

Participants in the Threads are entitled to help create the environment of this "Around The Camp Fire" sub-forum.
I, as moderator, am interested in helping to build an environment that all participants are comfortable with, bearing in mind that the rules of this sub-forum are the cornerstones from which such foundation will be built, and as such - are the overall guide for all participants to follow.

The use of PMing for the purpose this thread is created to do, is discouraged.
The moderator wishes the Readers to have access to data of process which PMing would otherwise hide from them.

Any comments and questions related to post in this thread, should also be answered in this thread, rather than in the role-play threads.

[The Tanager]

This is the last bit of that post:

"I have the fire ready when he returns. Then he does.

Callum: I hope your time away provided you with rest and, perhaps, insights to share. I read the book and I'm at the same place. I would love to understand better and am willing to try one more time if we can go little by little. I think, since I'm trying to understand things, that I should direct the discussion for a little while to see if gives us different results. If you care not to try that, then just stop me now, my friend."

I would say change the first line above to "I'll have the fire ready if he returns." And then just delete everything else.

[William]

• [font=Georgia]Callum: I hope your time away provided you with rest and, perhaps, insights to share. I read the book and I'm at the same place. I would love to understand better and am willing to try one more time if we can go little by little. I think, since I'm trying to understand things, that I should direct the discussion for a little while to see if gives us different results. If you care not to try that, then just stop me now, my friend."[/font]

William: When the next thread - [font=Georgia]Act II[/font] -is created, you may wish to then start off with those words.

Presently I have just finished an interaction with Manu Iti while he was enjoying his Quiet Time down by the King Frog Pond, and we came up with an idea of approach which we will try out in [font=Georgia]Act II.[/font]
Before I create the thread I will be going through [font=Georgia]Act I[/font] mapping out with succinct points how things unfolded, and perhaps add some comments, to post at the end. You might also like to do something similar.
Once we are both finished with the [font=Georgia]Act I[/font] thread, I will lock it.
Cheers!

[William]

Okay - The Act II thread is almost ready to open Tanager. Before we begin posting, I would just like to offer you the opportunity to write something in relation to the characters Callum and The Bird and The Tanager.

If so, just jot them down and post them here and I will add them to the OP of Act II.

Cheers.

W

[The Tanager]

The character intros will follow a thought I've had. It may have a drastic effect on what this Act will cover. In the first Act, I saw it as a more mysterious setting/framework that was open as to the truth of things to where our characters' different views could both be explored.

The way the second act introductions you offer comes across, gives me the idea that we could move towards both accepting your framework as truth about Manu Iti and Callum's existence. However, that would mean we focus on an analysis of your worldview and how my character will respond to such a worldview being really true. This would mean that my worldview would not be explored that much, if at all. I'm fine doing that (although I'm not sure really how to get Callum there rationally), but I would not want this to be perceived as dodging on my part. The lack of critiquing my views would be a necessary element of the story it seems to me.

Let me know what you think about that and here are some character blurbs:

Callum. He is a visitor to the Encampment, under the impression that he has lived a life very similar to those who live in The Physical Universe. He has since learned that his existence is quite a bit different than he originally thought, but is still unaware of The Hologram Dimensions.

I'm not really sure what to add about The Tanager for this story. He has never seen William/Wiremu, but is a willing co-creator (or perhaps assistant creator is more accurate) within The Encampment. He remains mysterious.

The Bird is a small bird that enjoys dancing, song, poems, discussions and all things artistic. She is a comforting creature to Callum.

[William]

The Tanager: The character intros will follow a thought I've had. It may have a drastic effect on what this Act will cover. In the first Act, I saw it as a more mysterious setting/framework that was open as to the truth of things to where our characters' different views could both be explored.

William: The Idea of creating this Sub-Forum as an exercise in Role-Playing has never been hidden. It was created to explore many different ideas to do with The Metaphysical in relation to what we here in this Universe regard as "The Real World". [TRW]
In TRW, it has been observed that Role-Playing is very much a happening thing within the platforms of Human interaction as well as how Judgmentalism is the usual mechanism operating said Role-Playing.
This is specific as to why the rule "No Judging" is specified as necessary - to observe if - and in what ways - the interaction might differ and where such might lead.

The Tanager: The way the second act introductions you offer comes across, gives me the idea that we could move towards both accepting your framework as truth about Manu Iti and Callum's existence.

William: The theory I offer re my own theology, is that in relation to The Metaphysical Universe, Human Imagination has a great influence and effect on the MU, and visa versa.
You might be able keep an open mind without having to actually believe your creation is real.
Indeed, this in itself would be something worth exploring in relation to The Creator idea.

The Tanager: However, that would mean we focus on an analysis of your worldview and how my character will respond to such a worldview being really true.

William: Throughout Act I, your Character has responded to the situation as being true. I would submit that the aspect of the 'worldview' as noted in my last paragraph should not be ignored on account that you yourself have a world view which might be contrary to my own. It may work out that it is more similar that not.
We cannot know how that might pan out when examined without Judgement, if we do not try.

The Tanager: This would mean that my worldview would not be explored that much, if at all. I'm fine doing that (although I'm not sure really how to get Callum there rationally), but I would not want this to be perceived as dodging on my part. The lack of critiquing my views would be a necessary element of the story it seems to me.

William: As I hinted earlier, my interaction with Manu Iti in his Quiet Time provided he and I with a possible direction we can pursue in relation to the interaction between you and I through the device of the Role-Play.
It may work out, that critiquing either world-view against the other won't be necessary. Certainly it hasn't achieved anything substantial up to this point, which is a fair chunk of the reason that Act II came about.

Since your role is Callums Creator, you might want to think about making The Tanager less mysterious in that role, unless of course you are being so because this is how you 'see' your own creator in relation to you.
In which case, it might be of value to remain aloof, but I personally think that this contributes to the problem Callum and Manu Iti have re communication, as it has been left mostly to me (Wiremu) and Manu Iti to inform Callum what we know about his creator...which - although, is not a lot - has been a necessary element in order to try and explain to him where he is and help he and his creator decide where he best be, in The Hologram Dimensions aka "The Metaphysical Universe."

Obviously you as Callums Creator have also been informed through the Role-Play Characters, in the same way as Callum has been informed.

Perhaps a good thing to note is that, unlike the introduction to Act 1, the intro to Act II is far more informative etc, due to us having co-created in a 'make it up as we go along' manner, and thus the story has developed...it would be a happy thing - I think - if it continued to develop, but of course, won't, if you choose to bow out now.

But if you do so choose that path, then Act II becomes an epilogue rather than a prologue and I would just pin it to the end of Act I and delete the Act II thread altogether.

Let me know if you want to continue...

[The Tanager]

The Idea of creating this Sub-Forum as an exercise in Role-Playing has never been hidden. It was created to explore many different ideas to do with The Metaphysical in relation to what we here in this Universe regard as "The Real World". [TRW]

With your description of the Situation in the OP of Act II, there is a much clearer attempt to control the truth of the setting of this story than what started off our interaction in Act I. I think that is a good thing.

Throughout Act I, your Character has responded to the situation as being true. I would submit that the aspect of the 'worldview' as noted in my last paragraph should not be ignored on account that you yourself have a world view which might be contrary to my own. It may work out that it is more similar that not.
We cannot know how that might pan out when examined without Judgement, if we do not try.

I know you'll say you've clearly identified what you mean by judgment, but I still don't know what you mean by this concept. My questions there were not clearly addressed in Act I.

As I hinted earlier, my interaction with Manu Iti in his Quiet Time provided he and I with a possible direction we can pursue in relation to the interaction between you and I through the device of the Role-Play.

Looking forward to it.

[William]

After collecting myself, I start to move towards the fire to try and pluck Master ColdFire from its torment. I succeed in pulling the little Master from the fire and the screaming stops. He smiles at me.

Moderators Comment

Please refrain from interfering with another persons Character with your own, within the role-play activity.

Please review The Rules.
Thank You

[William]

Hi Tanager

A rule of this sub-forum is that all participants agree to in relation to Playing their Characters in the Role-Play situation is as follows

â–º Stay True to the Story-line developing. (The Rules)

Your most recent post ignores that rule and will have to be changed to accommodate the story-line which has recently developed.

Since - in post #44 you wrote into the story-line that your cloned Master ColdFire 'disappeared'.

After that, I felt I had two options;

1: Get you to agree to your post being edited so that Callum puts the stick back where he got it from, since he had been used by you to interfere with one of my Characters (Master ColdFire,) in the first place, or:

2: Go along with the story-line created and deal with it that way.

I chose option 2 for a number of reasons, and the story-line branched off as it did from there.

You will now have to have your post #46 edited so that the story-line is followed...specifically where you have your character saying "Little friend, it looks like I must put you back in the fire. Manu Iti and Wiremu say you have to be a stick." as you have already made the stick (or as you have your Character Callum see it as a cloned Master-ColdFire) 'disappear'.
Effectively, as it stands right now, your Character thinks he is talking to a burning stick-man which isn't actually there anymore because you already wrote in The Script that it had disappeared.

The deed is done and the story-line now has to be followed to honor the continuity.

Your writing a big *thought-narration to explain your point of view through Callums thought processes and then ending that with "Then the "burning stick" appears back beside me." is simply too little too late because that ship has sailed. You simply do not have enough information yet about The Nature of The Hub of The Hologram Dimensions, but what data you have so far been given access to, has informed you that sending something away to no place specified, cannot simply be undone by suddenly having it re-appear again.

It is gone and Master ColdFire is hunting it down, because that is how the story-line already has unfolded.

Also another thing which needs changing is this line you wrote;

"He then tells me to put it back, assuming that I took a stick."

This also is not following true to The Script as my Character (Manu Iti) told your Character (Callum) no such thing, and neither is there any assumption on my part that you attempted to interfere with Master ColdFire because What Was Written clearly shows this to being the case.

If you have concerns about understanding this rule of following the Story-line, please feel free to share them. If you do understand the rule, please let me know how you want the edit to read.

*Please remember, if you think that the game is not being played on an even field, you are free to bring your concerns to This Thread, as that is also what it is for - Sharing In The Building.

Thank You

William

[The Tanager]

You have given no rules that when I send something off it can't soon re-appear. Just because I didn't name where it went, why should I think I can't therefore bring it back from that undisclosed situation? I followed the story line and took it forward in a rational way. I don't even see how ColdFire could find where I sent it, because that would be you controlling my character, which you have made clear is against the rules. As far as what is in the script, Manu Iti did request me to return the stick to the fire in post 41. In the end, I don't care how it is handled, but you are close to losing me here with these kinds of inconsistencies and over-controlling actions. I have overlooked these kinds of things in the past, because I want to engage with your view, but it is beginning to wear on me.

I know, you think your rules are clear and should understood by all how you understand them, but that simply can't be done. You have a certain idea for this thread that can't be conveyed to us in a short post or two of short rules. That's fine. It also does not help that your worldview is so different in nature to the majority worldviews. That's not a bad thing, either, just something that requires extra work and patience. How you react to the grey area, as we are trying to make it black or white, is what matters. You have shown some grace at times, but have also clearly jumped to judgments about my motivations in times my interpretation of this place or the rules don't match with yours. I'm not trying some kind of power play with your rules, but feel like your latest actions are trying to take us that way. I really want to get back to hearing about your view in a trusting environment. Right now I feel like I'm walking on egg shells.

So, edit the post however you want to make it fit your idea and let's please move past this as you claim you want to do and I definitely want to do.

[William]

The Tanager: I have overlooked these kinds of things in the past, because I want to engage with your view, but it is beginning to wear on me.

William: If we both continue to be patient, I am sure this can be worked out.

The Tanager: As far as what is in the script, Manu Iti did request me to return the stick to the fire in post 41.

William: Having checked post 41 the only reference I can find is this:

• Manu Iti: We have decided to tell you in the hope that you will see the stick for what it is and return it to the fire. If you chose to do so, Wiremu need not ask The Tanager to answer why he chose to use you in this manner, and we can move on from this.
  Otherwise, we would appreciate an answer from The Tanager so this little hiccup can be resolved. (Emphasis mine)

William: If that is The Script you are referring to, then within the context of The Story-line, your Character Callum was given the option and he did not choose to return what was taken from the Campfire, back to the Campfire, but chose to hold on to it.

The story continues to unfold after the choice was made by Callum, not to do what was asked of him.

I am positive that you can appreciate that my subsequent post #45 came through no small time and effort on my part as I had to follow The Story-line as it unfolded.

The Tanager: You have given no rules that when I send something off it can't soon re-appear.

William: There are no rules about that. There is just the rule of following The Story-line.
For example, if you send something away you can immediately call it back within the content of the same entered script (post).

Once either of us enter the Script and post that, there is no longer opportunity to change The Story-line and in this case, you simply had the stick disappear and gave no information as to where you made it disappear to.

Thus my reply had to revolve around what information The Story-Line gave to me at that point and once my reply was made and the Script posted, that information then becomes part of the Story-line and will not be changed.

Therefore, The Stick of burning ColdFire has been sent 'somewhere' and regardless that you do not know how Master ColdFire can track the burning stick, that was alluded to in the Story-line in my post #45 as Master ColdFire had to leave immediately to stay on the trail of said burning stick - he is attempting to overtake it and prevent it from going anywhere where it shouldn't be.

The Tanager: I know, you think your rules are clear and should understood by all how you understand them, but that simply can't be done.

William: I think the rules should need no explaining to those who choose to integrate a Character they create into the sub-forum. It is not up to me to explain to anyone 'what does non-judgemental mean' as it is not my responsibility to inform anyone about that. It is simply something that one should know before creating a Character and placing it into the Role-Play situation. That is why I wrote in the sub-forum introduction, the following Script

• "Hi
  
  I thought it would be interesting to start a group for the purpose of role-playing as genuine individuals interested in discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.
  I have named the group;
  
  Around The Camp Fire
  
  
  I seek to attract individual personalities who are happy to oblige in expressions of non-judgmental and unconditional loving attitudes." My emphasis.

It is not acceptable that a Character is created for the purpose of then using that Character to ask those questions within the Role-play environment. This has caused unnecessary problems which were evidenced in Act I and which I and Manu Iti sorted out as to how to handle that, in The Silence of King Frog Pond.

Here are some excerpts from that meeting;

Wiremu: There are rules to follow. When rules are tested through challenge, a 'bending of the rules' occurs, which is required for the duration of the test.

Manu Iti: When does the duration occur?

Wiremu: When something breaks.

Manu Iti: Like the rule not to be judgmental?

Wiremu: If it were agreed that The Tanager is correct, then yes.
The rule is unrealistic and cannot truly be applied.

Manu Iti: So this is why we meet in this place...because we have to understand we are - perhaps being unrealistic.

Wiremu: Or to formulate a means of establishing that we are not, and the rule then cannot be broken.

Manu Iti: How are we to tell?

Wiremu smiles at me...

Manu Iti: So how are we to deal with this problem with The Tanager using Callum in this way?

Wiremu: Good question. We need to acknowledge that this is the underlying reason for the behavior and set in place counter-measures to ensure we are not drawn into the dynamic. Clearly we have identified exactly the algorithm by which this is being achieved...

Manu Iti: "Everyone speaks from the perspective of Judgment"

Wiremu: Correct. In this, Callum simply uses the algorithm as a filter that everything that you say to him is put through.

Manu Iti: Which is why, when he answers what I have said, it appears twisted from the original meaning I intended...interesting...

Wiremu: Exactly! Add to that, The Tanager finished his post with the following;

The Tanager: "As of right now, I will continue Callum's part in this discussion how I have been going about it. If it ever crosses the line in your view, then please let me know through this or PM, explaining exactly how it crosses the line, so that I can stop doing that."


Wiremu: What can be found here?

I think on The Tanagers words and suddenly it becomes clear to me...

Manu Iti: He is putting the onus of responsibility onto you!

Wiremu: Correct! He has shifted from self responsibility in this manner because he believes that whatever I say about his use of Callum in breaking the rules of your Universe, can be used as 'evidence' to support his assertion that 'everyone is judgmental'.

Manu Iti: I see. So what is our solution to this?

William: Good question I think. We decided that we would leave it up to you to be responsible for working out for yourself what being non-judgemental requires, rather than be distracted by unnecessarily taking that responsibility on ourselves.

In that, I take simply my role as the sub-forum Moderator and comment as and when the rules are being broken, here in this thread...and leave my self in that role - and Manu Iti in his, free from that burden.

If you feel any rules are being broken you are free to say so here in this thread. The best idea is that we do not use our Characters and leave such out of the actual Role-Play situations, so the Story-line does not get distracted from more important discussion the Characters could be having.


The Tanager: So, edit the post however you want to make it fit your idea and let's please move past this as you claim you want to do and I definitely want to do.

William: I will delete the post and you can create another one. I will make a copy of it and place it here, now. Done.

Thank You for your patience and understanding Tanager. Hopefully this small hurdle can soon enough be in the past...

• Manu Iti talks about us causing a potentially harmful situation. I'm assuming he is still referring to the Master ColdFire affair, but he is very vague about that, so there is plenty he's not telling me. This is part of why I don't get why he and Wiremu are shocked that their rules and responses aren't as clear as they think they are. He then reads another letter noting a conversation between the Earth Entity, which I think is QueenBee, and William, whom I recall is Wiremu under another name. He then talks about magic and how the disappearance of my "burning stick" is different from the creatio ex nihilo "magic". He states that my "burning stick" has gone somewhere. That seems to me to be an attempt to control The Tanager's creation, but I guess not. The way "around" it seems to be to say that Wiremu gets to decide the nature of this place, so he's not controlling the character. He then tells me to put it back, assuming that I took a stick. Perhaps it was simply an illusion and not an actual stick from the fire. This is another part of why I don't get why he and Wiremu are shocked that their rules and responses aren't as clear as they think they are. I thought this was a place of mutual creation, but it isn't evenly displaced, I guess. But I don't think it's worth pursuing with Manu Iti or Wiremu. I'm fine playing by those rules, now that they are becoming clearer. Then the "burning stick" appears back beside me.
  
  Callum: Little friend, it looks like I must put you back in the fire. Manu Iti and Wiremu say you have to be a stick.
  
  The "burning stick" seems to shrug, but I guess it can't. I grab it and throw it in the fire. Hopefully Master ColdFire gets informed of this, so he's not looking in vain for too long. I then turn to Manu Iti.
  
  Callum: Now about those word-strings and list-strings, my friend?
  
  Moderators Comment - editing required