Would you still believe in God, if you found out that

[Elijah John]

Would you still believe in God if you discovered that Jesus is not God? If so, what form would that new found realization take? Would you then become a Jew? A Muslim? Or a free-lance, "heretical" Christian?, A Jehovah's Witness? Something else?

[ttruscott]

ttruscott: He can even use a truth to tell a lie: You will not die!

William: it has to be argued that The Satan was not - in fact - lying that we would surely never die.

Notice - I called "You will not die!" a truth used to tell a lie...

[ttruscott]

William: The death that was promised, is metaphor. Once cannot promise Eternal Beings, actual death. One can provide eternal beings with a sense of death through specific experience of beginnings and endings which can provide a genuine enough experience of death as impermanent.
An Eternal Beings genuinely cannot actually die.

DEATH has two similar meanings:

1. Physical death:
Death of the body is what happens when a spirit leaves a body. The body is dead and the spirit has experienced a death ie, leaving a body.

2. Spiritual eternal death:
This is the experience that spirits have when GOD removes them from HIMself and HIS reality...for eternity.

Both deaths involve a removal of something: the removal of the spirit from the body or a removal of the spirit from GOD and HIS reality, ie, THE ETERNAL DEATH OF ETERNALLY ALIVE BEINGS...

Eve accepted as true that she was eternal and so could not die. Being new to earth she must not have yet learned about physical death but she was still correct...as an elect she would not die the eternal death since election is the promise of salvation from all sin.

Therefore 'Ye shall not surely die" is true for all elect IF it refers to the second death yet it is not true for the non-elect who suffer both deaths. So eternal beings can and do die... Putting the hope of your eternal life in the knowledge you are an eternal being so therefore cannot die is short sighted...eternal being and eternal life are not synonyms.

[ttruscott]

Adam was not fooled, but deliberately ate the fruit to show his independence from God.

He saw Eve sin and knew she was in trouble with GOD but could not trust her to HIS mercy so, idolizing her over his GOD, he joined her in sin to be with her through her ordeal.

[William]

@

ttruscott: Notice - I called "You will not die!" a truth used to tell a lie...

William: What I notice is that you took the last part of what I wrote and then made a claim that you had 'called it' already.
IF I am correct in my understanding of your position, THEN you are one who also believes many humans will suffer torment forever in the flames of hell...so explain in that, why you are telling the reader that The Satan lied?
For now, I hold that The Satan did not lie, in regard to what I actually wrote;


What I actually wrote: if those who hold the idea that some humans will be saved while many humans will suffer torment forever in the flames of hell, and they are correct about that, then it has to be argued that The Satan was not - in fact - lying that we would surely never die.

[JehovahsWitness]

Notice - I called "You will not die!" a truth used to tell a lie...

If SATAN'S declaration "you will not die" is a TRUTH....
is JEHOVAH'S declaration "you will positively die" a LIE?

NOTE Neither specified to what type of death they were referring to so it is obviously possible they were both referring to the same type of death. If so, one of them (for whatever reason) was lying or mistaken; which one would that be?

[William]

@

JehovahsWitness: If SATAN'S declaration "you will not die" is a TRUTH....
is JEHOVAH'S declaration "you will positively die" a LIE?

William: It would depend upon what Jesus meant by that.
It could be that Jesus meant you will experience dying - what it means to die...to have an end to something which had a beginning. The experience of being human, in this case.
If so, neither the Serpent or Jesus could be said to have lied.

[William]

@

ttruscott: DEATH has two similar meanings:
1. Physical death:
Death of the body is what happens when a spirit leaves a body. The body is dead and the spirit has experienced a death ie, leaving a body.

2. Spiritual eternal death:
This is the experience that spirits have when GOD removes them from HIMself and HIS reality...for eternity.

William: The problem with this theology is that it presumes that the idea of GOD you accept, has no answer to evil except to engage the 'out of sight out of mind' reaction.

IF:
GOD is an eternal being
THEN:
All eternal beings are aspects of GOD.

IF:
All eternal beings are aspects of GOD.
THEN:
No matter how far away from him that GOD positions aspects of himself he does not like, they are still aspects of him.

Even humans who appreciate that they have their demons to deal with, do so - not by ignoring the existence of their dark side, but in finding ways in which to transform that duality into oneness.
Those who simply pretend there is no problem or otherwise ignore the problems, generally are not healthy of mind.

Your theology has it that the GOD sweeps things under the carpet...that is too strange an action of a GOD for me to appreciate.

I could understand, for example, that one might temporarily place evil Eternal Entities 'out of harms way' whilst one deals with setting up more convivial circumstances for good Eternal Entities to enjoy, but eventually those placed in this outer darkness on the edge of the universe experiencing the torment of being separated from their true Self, will have to be dealt with, because they are not going to go away, no matter how far they are banished. There existence will always be a significant evidence of failure.

It just doesn't makes any sense that a GOD would wittingly do that to himself.