What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?
Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures
What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophecies
Moderator: Moderators
-
Checkpoint
- Prodigy
- Posts: 4069
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
- Has thanked: 105 times
- Been thanked: 63 times
Re: What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophe
Post #2Yes, Jesus did fulfil prophecies concerning a special one to come, the anointed one.Avoice wrote: What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?
Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures
There are many such.
For example, Isaiah 53, which Jesus confirmed was about him.
Grace and peace.Luke 22:
37 "It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.�
-
Tcg
- Savant
- Posts: 8495
- Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
- Location: Third Stone
- Has thanked: 2147 times
- Been thanked: 2295 times
Re: What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophe
Post #3Checkpoint wrote:Yes, Jesus did fulfil prophecies concerning a special one to come, the anointed one.Avoice wrote: What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?
Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures
There are many such.
For example, Isaiah 53, which Jesus confirmed was about him.
Grace and peace.Luke 22:
37 "It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.�
You've provided evidence that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah. What you've presented doesn't provide proof that he was right about this claim.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
-
Checkpoint
- Prodigy
- Posts: 4069
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:07 pm
- Has thanked: 105 times
- Been thanked: 63 times
Re: What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophe
Post #4It was a valid claim; was he not "numbered with the transgressors"?Tcg wrote:Checkpoint wrote:Yes, Jesus did fulfil prophecies concerning a special one to come, the anointed one.Avoice wrote: What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?
Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures
There are many such.
For example, Isaiah 53, which Jesus confirmed was about him.
Grace and peace.Luke 22:
37 "It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.�
You've provided evidence that Jesus claimed to be the Messiah. What you've presented doesn't provide proof that he was right about this claim.
Tcg
Grace and peace.
-
Avoice
- Guru
- Posts: 1008
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:41 am
- Location: USA / ISRAEL
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophe
Post #5[Replying to post 2 by Checkpoint]
You can not use the Christian Testament to uphold the truth contained in the Christian testament.
The Hebrew Scriptures must support the claims of the church. And so i ask: What Messianic prophecy foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures did Jesus alone fulfill! ?
You can not use the Christian Testament to uphold the truth contained in the Christian testament.
The Hebrew Scriptures must support the claims of the church. And so i ask: What Messianic prophecy foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures did Jesus alone fulfill! ?
-
Avoice
- Guru
- Posts: 1008
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:41 am
- Location: USA / ISRAEL
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophe
Post #6[Replying to post 2 by Checkpoint]
In your quote from Jesus where does he say he fulfilled a prophecy?
"It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this MUST BE fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me IS REACHING its fulfillment.
MUST BE and IS REACHING doesn't say he fulfilled anything.
Anyone could say the exact words. And big deal. What prophecy did he fulfull?
In your quote from Jesus where does he say he fulfilled a prophecy?
"It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this MUST BE fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me IS REACHING its fulfillment.
MUST BE and IS REACHING doesn't say he fulfilled anything.
Anyone could say the exact words. And big deal. What prophecy did he fulfull?
-
Avoice
- Guru
- Posts: 1008
- Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:41 am
- Location: USA / ISRAEL
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophe
Post #7[Replying to post 4 by Checkpoint]
Numbered with the transgressors? Many people died along side transgressors. Would that prove they are the Messiah?
Numbered with the transgressors? Many people died along side transgressors. Would that prove they are the Messiah?
-
Overcomer
- Guru
- Posts: 1330
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:44 am
- Location: Canada
- Has thanked: 32 times
- Been thanked: 66 times
Post #8
Here are 353 of them:
https://www.accordingtothescriptures.or ... ecies.html
However, if you would like to stick to Isaiah 53 since that has already been raised, numbers 245 through 279 apply to it:
245. Isa. 53:1 His people would not believe Him John 12:37-38
246. Isa. 53:2 Appearance of an ordinary man Philippians 2:6-8
247. Isa. 53:3 Despised Luke 4:28-29
248. Isa. 53:3 Rejected Matthew 27:21-23
249. Isa. 53:3 Great sorrow and grief Matthew 26:37-38, Luke 19:41, Heb. 4:15
250. Isa. 53:3 Men hide from being associated with Him Mark 14:50-52
251. Isa. 53:4 He would have a healing ministry Matthew 8:16-17
252. Isa. 53:4 Thought to be cursed by God Matthew 26:66; 27:41-43
253. Isa. 53:5 Bears penalty for mankind's iniquities 2Cor. 5:21, Heb. 2:9
254. Isa. 53:5 His sacrifice provides peace between man and God Colossians 1:20
255. Isa. 53:5 His sacrifice would heal man of sin 1Peter 2:24
256. Isa. 53:6 He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind 1John 2:2; 4:10
257. Isa. 53:6 God's will that He bear sin for all mankind Galatians 1:4
258. Isa. 53:7 Oppressed and afflicted Matthew 27:27-31
259. Isa. 53:7 Silent before his accusers Matthew 27:12-14
260. Isa. 53:7 Sacrificial lamb John 1:29, 1Peter 1:18-19
261. Isa. 53:8 Confined and persecuted Matthew 26:47-75; 27:1-31
262. Isa. 53:8 He would be judged John 18:13-22
263. Isa. 53:8 Killed Matthew 27:35
264. Isa. 53:8 Dies for the sins of the world 1John 2:2
265. Isa. 53:9 Buried in a rich man's grave Matthew 27:57
266. Isa. 53:9 Innocent and had done no violence Luke 23:41, John 18:38
267. Isa. 53:9 No deceit in his mouth 1Peter 2:22
268. Isa. 53:10 God's will that He die for mankind John 18:11
269. Isa. 53:10 An offering for sin Matthew 20:28, Galatians 3:13
270. Isa. 53:10 Resurrected and live forever Romans 6:9
271. Isa. 53:10 He would prosper John 17:1-5
272. Isa. 53:11 God fully satisfied with His suffering John 12:27
273. Isa. 53:11 God's servant would justify man Romans 5:8-9, 18-19
274. Isa. 53:11 The sin-bearer for all mankind Hebrews 9:28
275. Isa. 53:12 Exalted by God because of his sacrifice Matthew 28:18
276. Isa. 53:12 He would give up his life to save mankind Luke 23:46
277. Isa. 53:12 Numbered with the transgressors Mark 15:27-28; Luke 22:37
278. Isa. 53:12 Sin-bearer for all mankind 1Peter 2:24
279. Isa. 53:12 Intercede to God in behalf of mankind Luke 23:34, Rom. 8:3
What's astounding is the fact that Jesus fulfilled ALL of them with the exception, of course, of those that refer to his second coming. So even if someone else fulfilled one of the prophecies (such as riding into Jerusalem on a donkey as you have suggested, Avoice), there isn't anyone but Jesus who fulfilled them all. And if you are looking for one prophecy that Jesus and Jesus alone fulfilled, it's the one that says he is the sin-bearer for all humankind. No one else can make that claim.
As for your suggestion that we can't use the New Testament, that's an unfair and ridiculous restriction. The gospels present the history of Jesus Christ's life and ministry. If you want to read what a contemporary Jew believed about Jesus, read the book of Matthew. He himself was Jewish and he aimed his account at Jews. He included example after example of how Jesus fulfilled prophecies about the Messiah to demonstrate that he was the one that they had been waiting for.
https://www.accordingtothescriptures.or ... ecies.html
However, if you would like to stick to Isaiah 53 since that has already been raised, numbers 245 through 279 apply to it:
245. Isa. 53:1 His people would not believe Him John 12:37-38
246. Isa. 53:2 Appearance of an ordinary man Philippians 2:6-8
247. Isa. 53:3 Despised Luke 4:28-29
248. Isa. 53:3 Rejected Matthew 27:21-23
249. Isa. 53:3 Great sorrow and grief Matthew 26:37-38, Luke 19:41, Heb. 4:15
250. Isa. 53:3 Men hide from being associated with Him Mark 14:50-52
251. Isa. 53:4 He would have a healing ministry Matthew 8:16-17
252. Isa. 53:4 Thought to be cursed by God Matthew 26:66; 27:41-43
253. Isa. 53:5 Bears penalty for mankind's iniquities 2Cor. 5:21, Heb. 2:9
254. Isa. 53:5 His sacrifice provides peace between man and God Colossians 1:20
255. Isa. 53:5 His sacrifice would heal man of sin 1Peter 2:24
256. Isa. 53:6 He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind 1John 2:2; 4:10
257. Isa. 53:6 God's will that He bear sin for all mankind Galatians 1:4
258. Isa. 53:7 Oppressed and afflicted Matthew 27:27-31
259. Isa. 53:7 Silent before his accusers Matthew 27:12-14
260. Isa. 53:7 Sacrificial lamb John 1:29, 1Peter 1:18-19
261. Isa. 53:8 Confined and persecuted Matthew 26:47-75; 27:1-31
262. Isa. 53:8 He would be judged John 18:13-22
263. Isa. 53:8 Killed Matthew 27:35
264. Isa. 53:8 Dies for the sins of the world 1John 2:2
265. Isa. 53:9 Buried in a rich man's grave Matthew 27:57
266. Isa. 53:9 Innocent and had done no violence Luke 23:41, John 18:38
267. Isa. 53:9 No deceit in his mouth 1Peter 2:22
268. Isa. 53:10 God's will that He die for mankind John 18:11
269. Isa. 53:10 An offering for sin Matthew 20:28, Galatians 3:13
270. Isa. 53:10 Resurrected and live forever Romans 6:9
271. Isa. 53:10 He would prosper John 17:1-5
272. Isa. 53:11 God fully satisfied with His suffering John 12:27
273. Isa. 53:11 God's servant would justify man Romans 5:8-9, 18-19
274. Isa. 53:11 The sin-bearer for all mankind Hebrews 9:28
275. Isa. 53:12 Exalted by God because of his sacrifice Matthew 28:18
276. Isa. 53:12 He would give up his life to save mankind Luke 23:46
277. Isa. 53:12 Numbered with the transgressors Mark 15:27-28; Luke 22:37
278. Isa. 53:12 Sin-bearer for all mankind 1Peter 2:24
279. Isa. 53:12 Intercede to God in behalf of mankind Luke 23:34, Rom. 8:3
What's astounding is the fact that Jesus fulfilled ALL of them with the exception, of course, of those that refer to his second coming. So even if someone else fulfilled one of the prophecies (such as riding into Jerusalem on a donkey as you have suggested, Avoice), there isn't anyone but Jesus who fulfilled them all. And if you are looking for one prophecy that Jesus and Jesus alone fulfilled, it's the one that says he is the sin-bearer for all humankind. No one else can make that claim.
As for your suggestion that we can't use the New Testament, that's an unfair and ridiculous restriction. The gospels present the history of Jesus Christ's life and ministry. If you want to read what a contemporary Jew believed about Jesus, read the book of Matthew. He himself was Jewish and he aimed his account at Jews. He included example after example of how Jesus fulfilled prophecies about the Messiah to demonstrate that he was the one that they had been waiting for.
Re: What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophe
Post #9RESPONSE:Avoice wrote: What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?
Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures
Keep in mind that Jesus died about 33 AD. The Gospels with the Jesus prophecies
and "fulfilled prophecies" were written 40 to 65 years after the fact by non-witnesses who were trying to start a movement.
Re: What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophe
Post #10polonius wrote:RESPONSE:Avoice wrote: What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?
Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures
Keep in mind that Jesus died about 33 AD. The Gospels with the Jesus prophecies
and "fulfilled prophecies" were written 40 to 65 years after the fact by non-witnesses who were trying to start a movement.
And of course keep in mind, Jesus failed to return as he had claimed he would in both Matthew's and Mark's gospels.
