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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 1: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:32 pm
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What is the Biblical view of hell?

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SallyF wrote:

The concept of Hell is one of the many unmarketable, embarrassingly unbelievable religious concepts that has been recently swept under the altar in the severely diluted quasi-belief system that passes for Christianity in certain circles.


Divine Insight wrote:

In fact, I think this is why Christianity invented eternal punishment in hell. They started to realize that just plain dying wouldn't be compelling. So instead they invented the concept of "Everlasting Punishment" for those who refuse to comply.


Questions for debate:
What is the Biblical view of hell?
What concepts do we have of hell that are not in the Bible?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 2: Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:12 pm
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Re: What is the Biblical view of hell?

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otseng wrote:

SallyF wrote:

The concept of Hell is one of the many unmarketable, embarrassingly unbelievable religious concepts that has been recently swept under the altar in the severely diluted quasi-belief system that passes for Christianity in certain circles.


Divine Insight wrote:

In fact, I think this is why Christianity invented eternal punishment in hell. They started to realize that just plain dying wouldn't be compelling. So instead they invented the concept of "Everlasting Punishment" for those who refuse to comply.


Questions for debate:
What is the Biblical view of hell?
What concepts do we have of hell that are not in the Bible?



Both of the quotes you provided refer to Christianity as the source for ideas of hell. Unquestionably, Christianity has developed an idea of hell as a place where some humans will live eternally in fiery suffering.


Your question is important to see if the Bible supports this view of hell. The answer, however, will not change the fact that Christianity has developed an idea of hell as a dwelling where some humans will suffer eternally.



Tcg

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 3: Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:46 pm
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Re: What is the Biblical view of hell?

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@

otseng:What is the Biblical view of hell?


William: Christian views on Hell @

Wiki:In Christian theology, Hell is the place or state into which, by God's definitive judgment, unrepentant sinners pass in the general judgment, or, as some Christians believe, immediately after death (particular judgment).[1] Its character is inferred from teaching in the biblical texts, some of which, interpreted literally, have given rise to the popular idea of Hell.[1] Theologians today generally see Hell as the logical consequence of using free will to reject union with God and, because God will not force conformity, not incompatible with God's justice and mercy.[

otseng: What concepts do we have of hell that are not in the Bible?

William: What religions believe in hell? @

Quora:
Ancient Greek religion
Ancient Egyptian religion
Judaism - Sheol
Christianity - Hell
Islam - Jahannam
Buddhism - Naraka
Hinduism
Sikhism


William:Also large amounts of data can be found on experiences of hellish realities which Astral Travelers as well as OOBEers/NDEers have reported.

My own observations of the data led me to conclude that the places of torment are not created directly by GOD - but are the consequences of human imagination which Jesus has allowed to be experienced as real by those who imagine such, in a particular area of his abode (The Metaphysical Universe attached to our own physical Universe) and these act as holding cells for said individuals. They are part of what Jesus referred to as "Many Mansions/Rooms/Places".


Jesus: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

William: In the context above, Jesus is specifically speaking of heavenly places, rather than hellish, but the technique is the same in regard to 'preparation' The 'mansions' react like a mirror effect on the individuals belief systems.Most Christians believe that they will see Jesus in Heaven, and thus, that is what they are prepared for, and what they will experience.

It is a good way in which to provide true Justice for all those who require it, as far as I can tell.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 4: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:35 pm
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Re: What is the Biblical view of hell?

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otseng wrote:

SallyF wrote:

The concept of Hell is one of the many unmarketable, embarrassingly unbelievable religious concepts that has been recently swept under the altar in the severely diluted quasi-belief system that passes for Christianity in certain circles.


Divine Insight wrote:

In fact, I think this is why Christianity invented eternal punishment in hell. They started to realize that just plain dying wouldn't be compelling. So instead they invented the concept of "Everlasting Punishment" for those who refuse to comply.


Questions for debate:
What is the Biblical view of hell?
What concepts do we have of hell that are not in the Bible?



There are three words in the Greek that are translated to English as "hell". There is "Hades" which is translated from the Hebrew "Sheol" which means "the grave".

There is the Hebrew "Gehena" or "Geena of fire" which is a reference to the garbage pit outside of Jerusalem which is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Gai Hinnom", or "The Valley of [the sons of] Hinnom"

Then there is the Greek "Tartaroo" which means "to thrust down to Tartarus". It is only found in one of Peter's letters. Homer describes it as the prison of the Titans, or giants which is not all that different than the biblical "Rephaim", or those spirits who sinned during the days of Noah.

Christians tend to conflate all of these differing terms.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 5: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:53 pm
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Re: What is the Biblical view of hell?

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shnarkle said,
There are three words in the Greek that are translated to English as "hell". There is "Hades" which is translated from the Hebrew "Sheol" which means "the grave".

There is the Hebrew "Gehena" or "Geena of fire" which is a reference to the garbage pit outside of Jerusalem which is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Gai Hinnom", or "The Valley of [the sons of] Hinnom"

Then there is the Greek "Tartaroo" which means "to thrust down to Tartarus". It is only found in one of Peter's letters. Homer describes it as the prison of the Titans, or giants which is not all that different than the biblical "Rephaim", or those spirits who sinned during the days of Noah.

Christians tend to conflate all of these differing terms.



Perhaps we can debate about the term "Hell", but it's undeniable that the Bible uses an actual description instead of just one term to talk about Hell. It mentions a Lake of Fire where beings will be tortured forever (Revelations 20:10). Whether or not we call this Hell is a moot point, because the description "tortured forever and ever" points to eternal punishment either way.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 6: Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:29 pm
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Re: What is the Biblical view of hell?

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AgnosticBoy wrote:

shnarkle said,
There are three words in the Greek that are translated to English as "hell". There is "Hades" which is translated from the Hebrew "Sheol" which means "the grave".

There is the Hebrew "Gehena" or "Geena of fire" which is a reference to the garbage pit outside of Jerusalem which is a transliteration of the Hebrew "Gai Hinnom", or "The Valley of [the sons of] Hinnom"

Then there is the Greek "Tartaroo" which means "to thrust down to Tartarus". It is only found in one of Peter's letters. Homer describes it as the prison of the Titans, or giants which is not all that different than the biblical "Rephaim", or those spirits who sinned during the days of Noah.

Christians tend to conflate all of these differing terms.



Perhaps we can debate about the term "Hell", but it's undeniable that the Bible uses an actual description instead of just one term to talk about Hell. It mentions a Lake of Fire where beings will be tortured forever (Revelations 20:10).


No, the lake of fire is not hell. We know this from verse 14 where it states:
Quote:

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.


Hell is not the lake of fire. Hell is thrown into the lake of fire. This only makes sense if the word "hell" is referring to the grave. Death and the grave are thrown into the lake of fire. Do you think death and the grave are going to be tormented forever in the lake of fire?

We have the author's definition to help us understand what he's actually talking about. He points out that to be thrown into the lake of fire is actually the second death. Unless death has some other definition which is commonly understood and accepted to mean eternal life, it doesn't make much sense to assume a second death means the exact opposite of what it is commonly accepted to mean. Death means the end of life, right?

Moreover, it is only after everyone has been judged that death is destroyed We know this from Paul's comment:

Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:26 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.


If death were thrown into the lake of fire FIRST, and then everyone else who was judged to the lake of fire, it would stand to reason that they would suffer forever due to the fact that death had already been obliterated in the lake of fire. This isn't the case though.



Quote:
Whether or not we call this Hell is a moot point,


Not really. You're conflating these two terms which only causes confusion.

Quote:
because the description "tortured forever and ever" points to eternal punishment either way.


Not really. As I pointed out earlier, death and the grave aren't exactly sentient beings. The author is exaggerating to make a point. We live in a world where loved one's suffer and die, and we suffer at the loss of our loved ones. The author is showing that at some point, the tables will be turned and instead of us suffering, it will be death and the grave personified that will be tormented forever.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 7: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:17 pm
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I'd like to start with what the Old Testament says.

In the OT, the transliterated Hebrew word is Sheol. In the KJV, it is translated grave (31x), hell (31x), pit (3x). It has a range of meaning from a physical grave, or a physical pit, or a spiritual place where people go in the afterlife.

The original Jewish belief in Sheol was everyone went there in the afterlife.

"Sheol is a place of darkness to which all the dead go, both the righteous and the unrighteous, regardless of the moral choices made in life."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheol

All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he [Jacob] refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to the grave [Sheol] to my son." So his father wept for him.
Genesis 37:35

There are indications Sheol was not the ultimate destination.

But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for He will receive me.
Psalm 49:15


Last edited by otseng on Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 8: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:38 pm
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[Replying to post 7 by otseng]

I don't know where you're getting this idea of "physical grace" as a definition of "sheol". The grave, pit or hell are the words used, and it is the usage that informs us of its true meaning, not traditions, or wiki definitions. When we see "the grave" we are not talking about "a grave" which is the Hebrew "keber"

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 9: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:26 pm
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[Replying to post 8 by shnarkle]

Sorry, it was a typo, it should be "grave". I've modified "grace" to "grave".

As for what Sheol is translated to, it's from:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7585&t=KJV

Sheol was translated as grave 31 times in the KJV.

Are you suggesting Sheol should never be translated as grave?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 10: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:41 pm
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How many are familiar with the teaching that hell was extreme cold? I believe the RCC taught this in the dark ages.

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