brianbbs67 wrote:
This is what I believe. Death comes early in the bible. "do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. For the day you eat of it you will surely die." Question: Adam and Eve did not die that day, did they?
Ahhhh, but they did! Spiritually, they died. God did not lie to them in Genesis 2:17. Adam and Eve, when they ate the fruit and became wise in their own eyes and disobeyed God, became dead in their transgression, just as God said they would -- in that very day. And this became the natural state of all human beings from that time forward, as Eve was the mother of all the living.
brianbbs67 wrote:
But they died much later which could have been avoided by listening to God. In other words, they were not meant to be perishable when created but became that way due to disobedience. They were dead men walking.
Yes, physical death came much later (and could have been avoided). But spiritual death, which also could have been avoided, occurred in that very day, so Adam and Eve were "dead men walking," as you say, but doomed to physical death (which is what you mean), but ALSO having already experienced spiritual death (see above).
brianbbs67 wrote:
Nephesh is the hebrew for soul. It simply means living being, not some spirit inside a living being. Nephesh is composed of the hebrew words for dirt(from whence man came) and God's breath or spirit. When we die we return to dirt and the spirit/breath returns to God. God seems to store that consciousness till the first or second resurrection.
I think you will agree that we are all made in God's image. God is spirit, according to John 4:24. Yes, we are physical beings, but the physical part of us is a tent, or a covering, as Tam has well pointed out. There is a spiritual part of us, too, and it is dead from birth (see above). For Christians, this spiritual part of us has been quickened, or reborn; we have been given new life in Christ (John 3).
Further, there is a necessary distinguishing between 'spirit' and 'soul.' I will agree (I never disagreed) with the fact that 'soul' ('nephesh') refers to the person -- not necessarily the physical body but figuratively the inner self,
the center of the person, really synonymous with the heart, as it is presented in the Bible. But again, we are all made in God's image and therefore also are spirit (though, unlike God the Father but like God the Son have physical bodies); it's just that the spirit in us is dead unless and until God gives it new life by His Spirit. We see this in 1 Corinthians 2, where Paul explains that the natural man (he who is not reborn of the Spirit and thus remains spiritually dead) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. Obviously, though we all are physically alive, there is something else in us that is either dead or alive; this is the spirit. It's not that some are "dumb," but rather that, spiritually, they are
dead, and the dead can understand nothing; they know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9).
brianbbs67 wrote:
Those in the faith are resurrected first and are eternal and reign with Christ 1000 years and more thereafter.
I agree... in part. The 1000 years you refer to (the Millennium of Revelation 20) is going on
now. Christ Jesus reigns today, now, not merely in the future. Yes, those in the faith are being resurrected at a steady rate and are coming to reign -- in spirit -- with Christ. When this 1000 years is over -- which is not a literal 1000 years but rather the fullness of time in which all of God's Israel, Jew and Gentile will be saved (Romans 11:25-26) -- Jesus will return, the Judgment will occur, the tares will be separated from the wheat, our faith will be sight, and Jesus will usher in the Kingdom in its fullness.
brianbbs67 wrote:
The second resurrection is of the evil, wicked and unbelievers.
The second resurrection (the first is spiritual and only occurs for some, those given new life in Christ -- John 3) is physical and is for
all, believer and unbeliever alike, who have died before Christ's return. Many will be resurrected to eternal life (believers) and others will be resurrected to the second death, which is final and also eternal (but not a ceasing to exist altogether; see below).
brianbbs67 wrote:
They are alive then, at judgement , and if their name is not in the book pf life they are tossed into the lake of fire and purified. They, their consciousness exists no more. The spirit/breath returns to God. There is no eternal torment you just don't exist anymore.
They do not cease to exist. Jesus is very clear in saying that the wicked depart from Him and not annihilated but cast into "outer darkness," which is a euphemism for a place totally devoid of God's grace, and under His judgment, and having no end. It is an eternal torment to them (Matthew 28:46); their anguish is eternal and is their "worm" that does not die and their "fire" that is not quenched (Isaiah 66:24, Mark 9:44). Jesus portrays all this very graphically in His parable regarding the rich man in Luke 16, verses 23 through 28).
I have no problem with anybody believing what they want to believe. But if it doesn't line up with God's Word, then I have to disagree. In the words of Martin Luther, here I stand; I can do no other.
Grace and peace to you, brianbbs67.