Atheists in the Pulpit

[shnarkle]

There was a study done some years ago showing how many atheists were attending seminary and going on to pastor Christian churches. I can't find it anymore, but did locate one showing that 17% of pastors in Denmark, or Sweden were atheists. The thing I found intriguing wasn't just that they found the job spiritually or financially rewarding, but that so many of their congregation accepted them. This isn't the case everywhere. In some cases, a congregation can dwindle by two thirds as in a well known case up in Toronto Canada.

It seems to be catching on with the progressive Christians. I spent some time monitoring a progressive website after reading a few of Jack Spong's latest books. His writing would lead most conservative or fundamentalist Christians to believe he's an avowed atheist, and yet he's quite tame in comparison to most.

Thirty years ago I would have thought this to be one of the most ridiculous ideas imaginable, but today it not only doesn't surprise me, I applaud atheists and Christians alike for accepting people regardless of these arbitrary labels.

The New Testament seems to be full of examples of heretics, unbelievers, etc. who Jesus not only accepts, but spotlights them for their supreme faith, and love. Perhaps if Jesus were alive today, he would present the Parable of the Good atheist to convict and turn the stubborn-hearted from their ways.

If the message is essentially the same, I don't really see a problem. I also think that the atheist's ability to get beyond the superficial aspects of Christianity, i.e. the long dead doctrines that seem to only sap the life from a church, and get to the message puts them at a distinct advantage. Ultimately, it's just a pointless label.

What do you think?

Should atheists be allowed to pastor churches?

https://www.ifyc.org/content/why-atheist-going-seminary

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... rch-canada

https://owlcation.com/misc/Atheists-in- ... the-Clergy

https://progressingspirit.com/

[shnarkle]

Well, these "pastors" according to you, are atheists. What more do I need to know? The title of this thread tells me all I need to know.

That's like saying the label "Christian" tells you everything you need to know about what they believe. It doesn't tell you that a Baptist believes Christ is God while a Jehovah's Witness doesn't, does it? Nope. It doesn't tell you anything about what denomination they belong to.

If you find the existence of God so make-believe and fairy taley,

I am not necessarily talking about "you" personally, but more in general as it pertains to the "atheists" in question who are at the pulpit.

Still a strawman due to the fact that the atheists at the pulpit don't believe in some "make-believe and fairy taley" God to begin with. You're assuming this from a position of profound ignorance. You quite simply are arguing a point that none of them would ever admit to in the first place. Your characterization is what is "make-believe".

Looks like I hit yet another nerve. I can assure you, I am in no way wasting my time, efforts or energy, nor am I using Church platforms for any ungodly reason.

Um, when I said "ungodly", it was in the sense of atheists (who claim that there is no god), of whom cannot possibly be using the pulpit for "godly" reasons...based on the fact that THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD.

The problem here is in not being aware of the vast amount of literature that has been written by avowed believers who essentially say the same thing these atheists are saying which is that your ideas of God are quite simply just ideas, and you're more of an idolater than anything else. In other words, the biblical authors point out that imagining what God is like is idolatry. When John's gospel points out that everything that exists is made, he obviously isn't including God. See the problem yet? Do you see how these atheists have discovered that they don't need to match up to your preconceived ideas of what it means to be a Christian? They've discovered a way to proclaim the gospel to atheists as well as so-called traditional believers. Paul did the same thing with regards to proclaiming the gospel to pagans. It's called speaking in their language.

The irony here is in you not noting the fact that you're the only one talking about these things, and the only one who keeps bringing them up.

I only brought it up to analogize what it means to truly not care about something.

It's a bad analogy. Here's a more accurate one. I don't care about tofu. nuff said.

.a concept that "atheists in the pulpit" doesn't seem to understand.

Atheists in the pulpit do care about what they're preaching though. They do care about their flock. They preach on the same topics that most other pastors preach about as well, but they also seem to have a better grasp of the fact that whatever ideas anyone has about God are just ideas, and God is not an idea. God is not a doctrine. God is not the conclusion to a syllogism.

The whole point was that atheists shouldn't care..

It's not a point. It's a claim that you have yet to substantiate with any evidence.

.just like I don't care about Star Wars. SMH.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much. You seem to know as much about Star Wars as atheists know about God, and yet there are atheists which probably know a lot more about biblical Christianity than both of us combined. As much as you post about Star Wars, you really shouldn't post so much about Star Wars. When someone talks about Star Wars a lot, it stands to reason that they know more than most about Star Wars, and people who know a lot about something tend to care about what they know so much about.

Jesus IS the truth.

And yet the bible says things like "I am the way, the truth, and the life" with no explicit reference to "Jesus". This is just an assumption on your part. Jesus preached self denial, but if you prefer to believe he didn't practice what he preached, that's fine, it just isn't necessarily the truth.

An atheist finding Christ is a beautiful thing, isn't it? Just keep him out of the pulpit until he does, though.

Don't you mean your version of Christ? You probably wouldn't listen to a Christian pastor preach in your church if they didn't believe all of your doctrines, would you?

These atheists simply have a different version of Christ than you do. One that is more concerned with what's inside a person than some arbitrary and superficial label.

All of those that are the "least" of his brethren are all believers…

Says you. Jesus points out that an unbelieving Centurion has more faith than all of Israel. He points to the heretical Samaritan as the example to follow when it comes to being fit for the kingdom.

so, this "least" in question is quite "qualitative".

Yep, and it's the quality of one's faith in action rather than the superficial doctrines they hold.

No, atheists aren't getting in..according to John 3:16.

No one can believe unless God draws them first. It's ironic that John uses this word "whomsoever", and people believe this must include them, but when Luke uses this same term in reference to the fact that only those "whomsoever" who have forsaken all their possessions are actually following Christ, 'they all began to make excuses'

ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. Luke 11:52

As long as there are those who would keep others out, they will never enter in themselves.

Jesus talks about the tax collectors and prostitutes parading into the kingdom in front of the legalist who sincerely believed there was no chance of them getting in either. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The supreme irony is that some never seem to notice Christ's claim that people were making their way into the kingdom 2000 years ago, and yet they still stand outside refusing to enter lest someone who doesn't meet their qualifications might get in.