One of the greatest claims God has is that he created life from non-living matter in his own image.
I submit to you the humble plant.
If it were in non-living clay, it would produce things in its own image so trivially we don't even think about it.
None of us are usually impressed by plants, but somehow when God does it, it is amazing.
So plants can produce that magic that is life from non-living material, in the same way as God, without magic.
So if life can be produced without magic, or God, is it necessary to presume one?
Is God really all that great?
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OnlineWilliam
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Post #2
Willum: Is God really all that great?
William: If it were just a plant, then I would think it not impressive. It is the rest of Creation which makes the plant so amazing.
If indeed a Creator is the reason for things which exist, I can think that as great.
William: If it were just a plant, then I would think it not impressive. It is the rest of Creation which makes the plant so amazing.
If indeed a Creator is the reason for things which exist, I can think that as great.
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Willum
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Post #3
Well I suppose, but you aren’t realistically applying both sides of the argument. Either God created everything and he exists, or he didn’t, and more wonderously, all life sprang from one or more plants, who do the same thing.
One involves only a single living thing, the other involves magic.
One involves only a single living thing, the other involves magic.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.
To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight
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OnlineWilliam
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Willum
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Post #5
So anyway, plants easily create life from non-living material everyday, in in their own image even.
They do it without magic, and if we further assume evolution is true, as observed, it means that a single plant, over the bil-/millions of years could easily produced all life on Earth.
Truly amazing, and no God required.
They do it without magic, and if we further assume evolution is true, as observed, it means that a single plant, over the bil-/millions of years could easily produced all life on Earth.
Truly amazing, and no God required.
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Aetixintro
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Re: Is God really all that great?
Post #6[Replying to post 1 by Willum]
It is with uttermost certainty not the Devil that's great either way.
The "God-Hypothesis" is one of maturity not fit with the classical school books of science.
When the best has been said and made known to people everywhere, then we should see how the shift moves from any credible "Atheism" to a fully, 100 % religious World.
This has just started to roll. One beautiful day not too far into the future, "Atheism", Godlessness will be all gone for good!
See for instance one mature listing: "The Fantastic Phenomena or of Freak Nature as Accounts of Reality", https://www.facebook.com/notes/lukas-f- ... 606236984/. The truth is respected in full all the meanwhile.
It is with uttermost certainty not the Devil that's great either way.
The "God-Hypothesis" is one of maturity not fit with the classical school books of science.
When the best has been said and made known to people everywhere, then we should see how the shift moves from any credible "Atheism" to a fully, 100 % religious World.
This has just started to roll. One beautiful day not too far into the future, "Atheism", Godlessness will be all gone for good!
See for instance one mature listing: "The Fantastic Phenomena or of Freak Nature as Accounts of Reality", https://www.facebook.com/notes/lukas-f- ... 606236984/. The truth is respected in full all the meanwhile.
I'm cool! 
- Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!
- Stronger Religion every day! Also by "mathematical Religion", the eternal forms, God closing the door on corrupt humanity, possibly!-
Tcg
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Re: Is God really all that great?
Post #7Willum wrote:
So if life can be produced without magic, or God, is it necessary to presume one?
Adding a God in an attempt to explain the mystery of life doesn't help. It simply shifts the mystery to an unevidenced being whose mysterious existence would then need to be explained.
The oft use argument that God has always existed doesn't resolve the issue, but simply complicates the mystery unnecessarily.
So, no, it is not necessary to presume one.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Tcg
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Re: Is God really all that great?
Post #8Aetixintro wrote:
One beautiful day not too far into the future, "Atheism", Godlessness will be all gone for good!
Theism says, "God/gods exist!" Atheism simply responds, "We don't accept your claim."
Once theism dies out, so will atheism, as there will be no claims of God/gods to disagree with.
Given the number of humans who rely on the comfort god beliefs bring, this isn't likely to happen anytime soon. It may not happen until humans go extinct. Of course, if some other species evolves to understand the existential realities of life, they may invent their on versions of gods/God to deny these realities and the cycle will continue.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Willum
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Re: Is God really all that great?
Post #9[Replying to post 6 by Aetixintro]
Um, yeah, so your God, who cannot be shown to do, or have done anything but to possibly inspire some ignorant goat-herders to write a 2nd century version of a comic book, can not be shown to have produced life from non-living matter.
BUT a plant, something you might find on a salt-flat or swamp, can be planted on life-less clay and produce more life in its own image.
Your God sucks compared to blue-green algae, and you think we should worship it?
Go on.
Um, yeah, so your God, who cannot be shown to do, or have done anything but to possibly inspire some ignorant goat-herders to write a 2nd century version of a comic book, can not be shown to have produced life from non-living matter.
BUT a plant, something you might find on a salt-flat or swamp, can be planted on life-less clay and produce more life in its own image.
Your God sucks compared to blue-green algae, and you think we should worship it?
Go on.
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Still small
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Post #10
Willum,
I believe your starting assumptions may be what is causing your confusion. Firstly, let me clarify that the phrasing “in [H]is own image� does not refer to being created with the physical appearance of God.
Secondly, God created an entire multi-dimensional universe complete with immutable laws in which to put His ‘living matter’. For your analogy to be similar would require the ‘plant’ to created an entire multi-dimensional universe complete with immutable laws, in which to produce more plants. In other words, the ‘plant’ would first have to make its own ‘non-living clay’ from which new plants would grow.
I believe you are confusing God creating or original production (from nothing) with a plant’s ability to biologically reproduce from existing material. It is somewhat different on many levels.
Have a good day!
Still small
I believe your starting assumptions may be what is causing your confusion. Firstly, let me clarify that the phrasing “in [H]is own image� does not refer to being created with the physical appearance of God.
Secondly, God created an entire multi-dimensional universe complete with immutable laws in which to put His ‘living matter’. For your analogy to be similar would require the ‘plant’ to created an entire multi-dimensional universe complete with immutable laws, in which to produce more plants. In other words, the ‘plant’ would first have to make its own ‘non-living clay’ from which new plants would grow.
I believe you are confusing God creating or original production (from nothing) with a plant’s ability to biologically reproduce from existing material. It is somewhat different on many levels.
Have a good day!
Still small
