Demonic possession and exorcism

[Zzyzx]

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Was Jesus an exorcist?

The Bible is rife with tales of demonic possession. In the NT there are twenty-five mentions of Jesus dealing with ‘demons’ (https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/ ... Out-Demons), the best known of which is:

Matthew 8:28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[a] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?� they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?�

30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.�

32 He said to them, “Go!� So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.

According to those who profess to know about such things Demonic Possession is when Satan or a demon enters and takes over the physical and mental capabilities of a victim, however, the soul and will remains free. Satan acts through the victim without the victim's consent, thus the victim is morally blameless. www.demonic.name/demonic-possession/

Jesus is portrayed as an expert demon extractor (as well as a faith healer). Was he more effective than modern exorcists (particularly Catholic priests who specialize in such things)? https://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/ ... p?id=71153

Are demons actually removed by exorcism?

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]


This would be one of the least taxing jobs of all time. Removing that which can't be shown to exist.

"Now you don't see it."

"Hocus Pocus!"

"Now you don't see it."

"That'll be $500 bucks."


Tcg

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

The bible identifies Jesus was a religious teacher but yes, it portrays him also as having the power toexpulse demons. From the bible account it seems that demons do indeed like to take control of physical beings and they can be expelled (ordered to leave) by higher authority.



JW

[Zzyzx]

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From the bible account it seems that demons do indeed like to take control of physical beings and they can be expelled (ordered to leave) by higher authority.

Yup, ancient tales tell of demons taking control of people.

Is there verifiable evidence to show the tales to be true?

Do demons actually exist in the real world (outside of imagination)?

[JJ50]

The existence of demons is no more credible than that of elves and fairies.

[OnceConvinced]

Well there is at least one story in the New Testament that shows us that it's all a load of mumbo jumbo and maybe Jesus was a conman or at the very least deluded. And that's the story where he casts out the demon of Epilipsy (Matt 17) We of course have now learnt that epilipsy is not caused by demons, so thus Jesus could not possilbly have exorcised such a demon. It just shows us the ignorance of people at the time INCLUDING Jesus who had no knowledge of mental/psychological illnesses so put it down to demon possession.

Sadly, even today, people still credit a lot of people's mental illnesses and abherattiions to demons. There is at least one member here (I'm not sure if she is still here) who is very vocal about the fact demons exists and are working today. She blames all the ills on society on demons and says things like "I don't think you really grasp just what an effect demons have on people today". Or something along those lines. Of course what she doesn't take into account are conditions like Asbergers, Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, Schitozphrenia, Maniac Depression, etc that are not caused by demons at all and some can even be treated.

These days we realise that most of what is put down to demons, is actually to do with the human brain not working properly. FAS is a huge one that affects a lot of people, but yet is often not diagnosed and put down to bad behariour, selfishiness, lack of reasoning etc. Yet, many of our kids these days have it. I know personally of one young girl who is just unable to reason or grasp the consequences of her actions. She is unable to rationalise and see when she is putting herself or others in danger. It's really bad and its all due to her mother drinking alcohol when she was in the womb. Her brain is just unable to make the connections. Maybe 30 years ago, she would have been accused of being demon possessed or manipulated by Satan. But blaming things on demons never solves anything nor does trying to cast them out of people accomplish anything.

I don't think there is any excuse to blame demon possession on anything in rational modern society. There is always some natural explanation, often to do with brain problems that can account for the things people do and why many are unable to be rational, or exhibit compassion and empathy.

So no, I don't believe they exist at all and thus can't be exorcised. I think to believe in them is showing ingnorance/a lack of education. It's primitive thinking. The more we learn about how the brain works, the less we need to attribute to supernatural beings.

[OnceConvinced]

Looking at it from a biblical perspective:

One thing we should consider, if we are going by theist teachings on this, is that God supposedly never violates freewill. So why would he then allow demons to do that? Why has he even given them that power and authority?

Another thing to be considered is that the bible is full of scriptures where supposedly God sends evil spirit to possess people. We also have the book of Job where God allows Lucifer to perform attrocious acts. So what does this say? Is this suggesting that although God won't violate people's freewill himself, that he will send others to do his dirty work for him?

Going by what the bible shows us, it seems that demons do not have the power to violate freewill unless God allows it or instructs it. So if it is possible to exorcise a demon it can only be done if God is ok with it being done. But in my experience with what I have witnessed with others and when it comes to trying to cast out demons myself (in the name of Jesus), it doesn't work. It seems these so-called demons have built up an immunity to the name of Jesus.

I can see now, having experienced years of it myself, that this thing called "Spiritual warefare" is a big game that Christians like to play but which doesn't actually achieve anything, except to make one feel like a big shot for Jesus.

[liamconnor]

.
Was Jesus an exorcist?

The Bible is rife with tales of demonic possession. In the NT there are twenty-five mentions of Jesus dealing with ‘demons’ (https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/ ... Out-Demons), the best known of which is:

Matthew 8:28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[a] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?� they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?�

30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.�

32 He said to them, “Go!� So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.

According to those who profess to know about such things Demonic Possession is when Satan or a demon enters and takes over the physical and mental capabilities of a victim, however, the soul and will remains free. Satan acts through the victim without the victim's consent, thus the victim is morally blameless. www.demonic.name/demonic-possession/

Jesus is portrayed as an expert demon extractor (as well as a faith healer). Was he more effective than modern exorcists (particularly Catholic priests who specialize in such things)? https://www.catholic.org/news/hf/faith/ ... p?id=71153

Are demons actually removed by exorcism?

There are more than one question here: Was Jesus an exorcist? Was Jesus more successful in exorcism than modern exorcists? And, are demons actually removed by exorcism?

All questions posit the existence of demons. Which of course is a little off in a topic in the Apologetics section of this forum, which surely holds the existence of demons as something to be proved.

[1213]

...These days we realise that most of what is put down to demons, is actually to do with the human brain not working properly. ....

Can we be sure that it is not caused by demons?

[Divine Insight]

Whether demons exist or not is actually quite irrelevant. These stories disprove themselves in either case.

This religious theology is extremely ignorant and why people cannot see this is beyond me. If mortal men can become evil on their own then why would they need to be possessed by evil demons? Also, if the people who are possessed by evil demons are evil people themselves then what good would it do to case evil demons out them?

The bottom line is simple. Why would a righteous trustworthy God ever allow an evil demon to possess an innocent mortal human? And if the human is not innocent and deserves to be possessed by evil demons, then why cast evil demons out of anyone?

Therefore it makes absolutely no sense to have Jesus casting evil demons out of anyone who was supposedly infested by them. He would be violating "God's Master Plan" by doing so anyway.

The fallacy of these ancient fables is so obvious.

The contradict any sane theology.

You can't have a God who allows innocent people to be possessed by demons and then cast those demons out of them "saving them from the demons". Yet this is precisely what Jesus was supposed to have done with Mary Magdalene.

It's just plain absurd. There's no other way to put it.

Either Mary Magdalene has chosen to be evil herself, in which case should would have had to simply repent of her own evil ways, or she was an innocent person who has been forced to be evil against her own will by evil demons.

The whole idea of evil demons possessing humans is clearly nothing more than extremely poor superstitious mythology.

There is no need to prove whether or not demons actually exist. The theology proves its own contradictory nature whether demons exist or not. So it's a failed theology no matter what.