The Irrelevance of the Bible

[Jagella]

Question for Debate: Is the Bible relevant today to anybody including Christians regarding concepts or practices that are valued, applicable, or ethical?

I think it's safe to say that most people including many Christians no longer believe the world was created in six days, that figures like Noah and Jonah existed, that Jesus' teachings need to be followed or that we even know enough about him to know what he really taught, that wiping out a military enemy including men, women, and children is acceptable, or that women are inferior to men and should be subordinate to men. Yet all of these ideas come directly from the Bible, the "foundation-document of Christianity."

The Bible has become irrelevant to our knowledge of the world, our daily practical activities, and our morality.

Bible scholar Hector Avalos writes that the numbers demonstrate that the Bible has no more relevance to almost all of us. He cites a Gallup poll, for example, that reveals that only four in ten Americans know that Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount!

I'm not surprised. Few if any of of us need to know who preached the Sermon on the Mount. We don't practice its moral tenets, and we are probably better off for not doing so. Not to mention that we, unlike Christ, know better than to believe that illness is caused by demons. If anybody does become ill, then we first seek medical attention, and the prayer Christ taught is at best an afterthought. Unlike Christ, we have protested against slavery and have abolished it in the developed nations.

So yes, by our actions we speak more loudly than our words that the Bible is irrelevant to us. If it has any use at all, it is at best a way to give some of us hope for a life beyond the grave, but even that hope has been now recognized as forlorn by many of us who wouldn't want it even if it was real.

[1213]

…ISIS did not get their genocidal, ethnic-cleansing, sex-slave capturing precedents from the Quran … they would need to look to the Bible for that.

One must have quite twisted mind to get sex-slave capturing attitude from the Bible.

[SallyF]

…ISIS did not get their genocidal, ethnic-cleansing, sex-slave capturing precedents from the Quran … they would need to look to the Bible for that.

One must have quite twisted mind to get sex-slave capturing attitude from the Bible.

9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.

10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.

11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.

12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.

13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.

14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.

15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of Yahweh.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

One may not know one's Bible very well if one is not familiar with this biblical precedent for helping oneself to virgin girls after slaughtering their families when taking their lands because "God" authorised the genocidal ethnic cleansing so one's own people could set up a theocracy/caliphate.

Muslima get the ideas of sex slaves and stoning women to death from the Bible, not the Quran.

And please do remember that the Loving Lord Jesus was in Heaven with Jehovah and the Holy Ghost at this time … and did NOTHING to prevent the genocide and rape.

And don't forget that Jesus is due to burst through the clouds at any moment for MORE delicious biblical genocide …!!!

[1213]

…ISIS did not get their genocidal, ethnic-cleansing, sex-slave capturing precedents from the Quran … they would need to look to the Bible for that.

One must have quite twisted mind to get sex-slave capturing attitude from the Bible.

…
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.…

But it doesn’t say anything about rape and sex-slaves, those ideas seem to come from your own mind. And I think that is truly sad.

[benchwarmer]

…ISIS did not get their genocidal, ethnic-cleansing, sex-slave capturing precedents from the Quran … they would need to look to the Bible for that.

One must have quite twisted mind to get sex-slave capturing attitude from the Bible.

…
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.…

But it doesn’t say anything about rape and sex-slaves, those ideas seem to come from your own mind. And I think that is truly sad.

Please enlighten us what you think the men did with the young virgins that they were to "keep alive for themselves". You can't really be that naive to think that these young women were simply taken in and treated like family. Can you?

You are correct that it doesn't directly state they were to be raped and become sex slaves, but they were certainly slaves.

[JehovahsWitness]

Jesus was part of this form of politics while he was still in Heaven with Jehovah and the Holy Ghost.

Can you explain this sentence, it seems like gibberish. Are we to assume for the sake of argument all three exist or are you refering to a metaphoric heaven and allegorical politics.

Clarification would be appreciated.


JW

[SallyF]

Jesus was part of this form of politics while he was still in Heaven with Jehovah and the Holy Ghost.

Can you explain this sentence, it seems like gibberish. Are we to assume for the sake of argument all three exist or are you refering to a metaphoric heaven and allegorical politics.

Clarification would be appreciated.


JW

Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were all in Heaven together acting as the Christian version of "God" since before they opened up the dome of air in the watery universe (see the first Creation Myth in Genesis One).

After this three-gets-you-one version of "God" sent THEIR particular genocidal dome-filling Flood, the Loving Trinity - according to the "scripture" of their propagandists - sent and/or sanctioned other episodes of genocide by their "chosen" people.

I'm specifically referring to the ISIS-like, God-sanctioned, ethnic-cleansing of the biblical "Conquest of the Promised Land" and the establishment of a Jehovah-based theocracy/caliphate as a political system. (Democracy is unbiblical.)

And if Jehovah was there sanctioning the genocide and the slavery, then so too was Our Lord Jesus Christ … according to those Christians who declare that Jesus was there "In the Beginning".

One cannot therefore leave the Loving Lord Jesus out of the Bible bits one does not like.

If ethnic-cleansing and virgin sex-slaves came from Jehovah, they came from Jesus too … and the Holy Ghost, of course.

However, in the imagination-free real world of history and archaeology, and not the fantasy world of religion, the biblical "Conquest" never happened … like many, many biblical things.

That's why Atheist Christians are tossing most of their Bible over the side of the sinking hot air balloon they still try to call "Christianity".

[JehovahsWitness]

Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were all in Heaven together acting as the Christian version of "God" ...

Can you present verifiable evidence that your claim is true?



JW

[SallyF]

Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were all in Heaven together acting as the Christian version of "God" ...

Can you present verifiable evidence that your claim is true?



JW

You're asking a New Atheist for verifiable evidence that a Christian version of "God" is true …?

I've been asking all manner of Christians - including Jehovah's Witness ones - for exactly the same thing for decades.

And I have NEVER been offered a scrap of verifiable evidence that Jehovah exists anywhere other than on the pages of the propaganda and in the minds of believers.

The same goes for God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.

So …

I am going to do a very un-Christian thing and say NO to your question.

However - as is obvious - I was repeating a general Christian belief.

Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Ghost were all in Heaven together acting as the Christian version of "God"

Graphics really do help to clearly illustrate points that certain folks have difficulty with:



This, for most Christians, is "God".

Christians who claim the Christian Trinity of Jehovah, Jesus and the Holy Ghost existed together, prior to opening the dome of air in the water in the Genesis One creation myth.

[JehovahsWitness]

You're asking a New Atheist for verifiable evidence that a Christian version of "God" is true …?

Yes I am, you made the claim (which I admit is unusual for an atheist), so it seems fair to ask if you can prove what you say is true.

I was repeating a general Christian belief.

Well then may I respectfully suggest in future you say that you are presenting a belief and not present it in the language of a factual claim as you did in this thread. A handy formular might be "Most Christians claim to believe that God is in heaven...." ect rather than "God is in heaven.."

This, for most Christians, is "God".

Very good, much better sentence construction, modified, clearly states whose views you are refering to. Well done. Can you understand the difference between " Most Christians believe XYZ " and .... "God is XYZ"...? If so, then my work here is done.

Enjoy your thread,


JW

[SallyF]

You're asking a New Atheist for verifiable evidence that a Christian version of "God" is true …?

Yes I am, you made the claim (which I admit is unusual for an atheist), so it seems fair to ask if you can prove what you say is true.

I was repeating a general Christian belief.

Well then may I respectfully suggest in future you say that you are presenting a belief and not present it in the language of a factual claim as you did in this thread. A handy formular might be "Most Christians claim to believe that God is in heaven...." ect rather than "God is in heaven.."

This, for most Christians, is "God".

Very good, much better sentence construction, modified, clearly states whose views you are refering to. Well done. Can you understand the difference between " Most Christians believe XYZ " and .... "God is XYZ"...? If so, then my work here is done.

Enjoy your thread,


JW

Well there we are, we've successfully made a great mountain out of that obvious molehill.

Please allow me to return the compliment and ask you for verifiable evidence that your Jehovah exists anywhere other than on the pages of "scripture" and in the minds of believers.