Is the Old testament fictional regarding the Exodus story?
1. The story begins with Joseph, his faather and his brothers.
2. The Hebrews were supposedly in Egypt for about 400 years.
3. At the time of the Exodus they numbered about 2.4 million, computed from the number of 600 Hebrew soldiers, their wives, children, and men too old or to young to fight.
So evidently Joesph and his brothers were overwhelmed with procreating!
4. And in spite of the number of Hebrews and all the time spent in Egypt, as one archeologisgt put it, they didn't even leave any broken pottery. In short, nothing that showed that 2.4 million had been there.
5. And to make matters worse, Moses l
led them into Canann, a Egyptian terrirtory at that time.
I agree the Hyksos were probably not Hebrews, but that is just a hypothesis, too. Thru genealogy they are the sons of Yaphet , son of Noah, son of Nun. I believe the Hyksos were already in Egypt as the palace guard. The Hebrews came later into slavery enventually. The Hyksos period is documented by history. They ruled Egypt for a short time and it seems they took control after Secanaro Tao and his son and the army perished as in the bible story.
I too, reject Ramses as the wrong time period that has blinded sience to any other posiblitity.
RESPONSE:
A little more than "just a hypothesis, too." Check the dates that the Hyksos were in Egypt. Very long before the Hebrews. And since no one knows anything about their origin, how did you come up with "sons of Yaphet, son of Noah, son of Nun." Don't tell us you got that from the bible too?
The "traditional (secular)" date of the Exodus is 1250 BC. Traditional, not real since the Exodus is itself fictional. Check with modern Tel Aviv University.
"as in the Bible story" eh? How about a start date for the beginning of the written Bible to be about 1400 BC?
"Answers in Exodus"? The traditional (secular) date of the Exodus is 1250 BC.
I got the answer through the genealogy of the royals houses of GB and Europe. George Washington was a cousin. The royals all trace their ancestors back to Adam. Are they right? IDK, but food for thought. I stumbled across the Phineas Pharci link to Yaphet doing a friend's ancestry. I believe , like others that the timeline is off. Especially considering Sekanero Tao's sons names. And the recession of water at the Red Sea and a Tsunami that wiped out Scythia and Crete's population. The Minowans were decimated or worse. These land were given to the Hyksos to get them to leave Egypt without any more bloodshed.
Also have GAPS that they haven't got a clue about. You have to watch it all the way to the end to see the Wall of Time come together. They admit the Egyptologists have gaps and once one sees the very end, iit becomes more practical, it must be pushed back to 1450-60 which still doesn't fit, but when the Gaps are considered, well, then it could very well fit.
The fact that they are all over the place kinda leaves one wondering. I see the Universe as 13.7 billion years old, and I see the first day as 9.2 billion years, so I am a Christian who's very practical, I think Climate Change is bunk, its a money grabbing scam, we both know that, LOL, if wee are truthful, they changed the 1930's DATA to make it appear we have warming. When I catch people doing that, I no longer buy anything they say. We know the speed of light, thus we know how old the Universe is. Facts are facts.
I couldn't find the thread, I am new here. I laid my understanding out, no use going tit for tat. I read you answers, thanks for the reply friend. We see things a bit different, but its all good.
rondonmonson wrote:
Seems the Archaeologists used the bible to get the Pharaoh Ramses pinpointed as the Pharaoh of the bible, then they also use that to pin point all of Egyptology's time line instead of following the facts.
The Exodus happened much earlier than Ramses. There is proof of every biblical detail, it just shows up a few hundred years before Ramses. There is a city of Canaanites under the city of Ramses which shows the proper time the Canaanites were in Egypt. It corresponds with the timing of Egypt growing into a centralized Government instead of a bunch of powerful tribes, Joseph made this possible with his dream about the coming famine.
The facts all line up with Jericho being burned up and the walls falling straight down. But scientists say it happened a few 100 years before the Jews were in Egypt during Ramses time, but they used the bible to get that date, not the facts. The city of Ramses as mentioned in the bible, is speaking about the current place at the time the bible was written, it was at the city of Ramses, but it was called something else when the Hebrews lived there, it even has a large house with 12 Pillars and a burial chamber built in a pyramid style, with a huge state of a man with "Red Hair" and a " Coat of many Colors".
The Exodus happened and the proof is there, but if you look for Alexander the Great in 200 AD I suggest you won't find evidence of him in a dig either.
I agree. The Exodus happened earlier than Ramses. I don't think, though, that the Bible was used to "pinpoint Ramses as the Pharaoh of the Exodus." Bible chronology shows that it happened around 1513 B.C. Ramses lived much later.
Good points, however, including your statement concerning Alexander!
onewithhim wrote:I wonder exactly where Finkelstein believes that archaeologists have examined the landscape to find evidence of the Exodus.
Sites all over the Sinai Peninsula have been excavated. Even if you're right and the wilderness wanderings were to the east, the Israelites still had to travel from Egypt to Canaan. Terrain and sites of known Egyptian military occupation limit the area through which they must have travelled. There is no sign of at least a half-million people having crossed the two to three hundred miles of desert.
The Israelites are also described as having made camps in specific places. Most of these are unknown references, but Kadesh-Barnea and Ezion-Geber can be identified with some certainty based on biblical descriptions of their locations and boundarieds of the region in Numbers 33 and 34. The sites weren't occupied by a group of any size during the correct time period.
onewithhim wrote:Does he mean where Constantine's mother said Mt. Sinai was?
I don't feel like I should even have to say this, but modern archaeologists aren't tourists. Finkelstein in particular added an appendix to his book to explain that, while there are likely candidates, nobody is sure which mountain peak was Mount Sinai or Horeb. The conclusions he and other archaeologists have drawn don't rely on Sinai being a specific site, let alone one based simply on the traditions of Byzantine monks.
onewithhim wrote:I know there is no evidence there because that is not the actual Mt. Sinai. Did his archaeologists go to JABAL AL LAWZ in Midian? There is much room to wiggle regarding this issue. The locations of the cities mentioned in the Bible account are not exactly known today. Scholars have them in various places. If you follow the Bible account from the Gulf of Aqaba, everything lines up. No one seems to want to do that.
So, do you mean that there is evidence of this? Or are you saying that there isn't any actual evidence because archaeologists haven't excavated the right spot? The Israelites still had to traverse the same terrain. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that they actually traveled farther. There should still be evidence in the places archaeologists have looked, even if they haven't looked where you think the actual Mount Sinai is.
I say---not necessarily. The excavating work they have already done could very well have been in the wrong places, and their time frames could be wrong.
I said already that there is compelling evidence connected to searches made by a number of people, and there are pictures of chariot pieces at the bottom of Yam Suf in the Gulf of Aqaba. There are studies done on these inferences, and the latest book that I have obtained is called "The TRUE Red Sea Crossing to the TRUE Mt. Sinai," by Ron Tottingham, PhD, LitD. It sums up everything I have researched up to now. Perhaps you would find it interesting.
Is that book the one that finds a skull believed to be the pharoah's, that has head wounds because it appears his troops turned on him as the waters fell down on them? Just curious.
Just because no pottery has been found doesn't prove it didn't happen.
I could say they used paper plates and were very neat that's why none has been found. No wait! Christian apologetics has rubbed off on me. That would be their kind of explaination.
I've been to that part of the world. The Sinai is huge. And you just can't wander around Egypt gathering artifacts. And they'll kill you if you try leaving with any. Any serious digging will be done by Egyptian archaeologists. And they really aren't eager to prove that history.
As it stands there is little evidence of the exodus from Egypt. In contrast there is overwhelming evidence of ancient Egypt during the days of the pharoahs. The Sphynx and pyramids have been preserved. What a testimony they are! Had Moses turned back and brought the exiles back to Egypt and worshipped the Egyptian gods they'd be gone and this forum wouldn't exist.
God could have taken them straight to the land of milk and honey. He didn't. He wanted them to understand that He is all they need. That it is He that can save them and none else. So he took them into the wilderness where there was no food or water. Nothing. When they cried out for help they were heard. They didn't worship Moses or pray in the name of Enubis or any other false God. Had they done that this forum wouldn't exist. Whatever path they took is unclear but we know they arrived at their destination. And we know what happened to them when they turned away from God's instruction. He ousted them from the land. TWICE!
The second time the were exiled it was for 2000 years. They were told that during that time they would be scattered to the four corners of the earth and suffer greatly. During the 2000 years God said the land would rest. Which it did. There is overwhelming evidence that this prophecy came to pass. All the great Empires of the world that tried to work the land failed. All their wealth and resources and the land still refused to produce. Even Mark Twain writes of his trip there. That it was a wasteland. BUUUUT...God promised one day they would see the wickedness of their ways and repent. He then would return them to the land of Israel. And the land would once again bloom. And that is exactly what happened. Another fulfilled prophecy. God also said " I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings". Israel is a major player in the world of science and medicine, R&D, technology, defense, cyber security the list goes on. The same downtrodden people your grandparents remember have gone from rags to riches. All in the course of 70 years.
Did the exodus from Egypt happen? Quit looking for evidence of God in your rear view mirror. If you think the story if the Exodus was just too much to believe to be true -stop wondering. We who are alive today only need to keep our eyes on the Jews and the land of Israel to witness Gods hand. The final prophecies are being fulfilled. Our grandparents were alive when the Jews were at their lowest. Nearly all of the Jews in Europe were annihilated by the nazis (purposefully all in lowercase letters) And the Jews that remained in the world were rejected and despised wherever they went. Vagabonds - living here and there but citizens of no country. America was the only place that welcomed them. But even America had refused them safe refuge at one point
I'm getting off track ..
Forget looking for evidence of the exodus from Egypt. Why bother when you are alive to watch something that is even more unbelievable. Against all odds the Jews have survived. And God is bringing the Jews back from the land of their enemies as PROMISED. NEVER TO BE UPROOTED AGAIN.
�Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers."
We weren't there to witness God bringing them out of Egypt. But we get to watch something even greater.
AGAINST ALL ODDS ......HERE IS FULFILLNENT OF PROPHECY....HERE IS THE BROKEN POTTERY THAT CANT BE FOUND. BEHOLD THE HAHD OF THE GOD OF ISRAEL AND THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE CARRIED HIS MESSAGE TO ALL GENERATIONS. EVEN TO YOU:
polonius wrote:
Is the Old testament fictional regarding the Exodus story?
1. The story begins with Joseph, his faather and his brothers.
2. The Hebrews were supposedly in Egypt for about 400 years.
3. At the time of the Exodus they numbered about 2.4 million, computed from the number of 600 Hebrew soldiers, their wives, children, and men too old or to young to fight.
So evidently Joesph and his brothers were overwhelmed with procreating!
4. And in spite of the number of Hebrews and all the time spent in Egypt, as one archeologisgt put it, they didn't even leave any broken pottery. In short, nothing that showed that 2.4 million had been there.
5. And to make matters worse, Moses l
led them into Canann, a Egyptian terrirtory at that time.
Don't we just love bible stories
''
Some of us do, even though others consider them to be fiction, and seek to enlighten us with their own fictional reasonings.
Jews have celebrated Passover for thousands of years.
