Are "spiritual gifts" real?

[Jagella]

In 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 Paul writes of these nine "spiritual gifts" bestowed upon Christians:

• 1. utterance of wisdom
  2. utterance of knowledge
  3. faith
  4. healing
  5. working of miracles
  6. prophecy
  7. discernment of spirits
  8. various kinds of tongues
  9. interpretation of tongues

Question for Debate: Can any Christian here demonstrate that any of these "gifts" are anything more than delusions?

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Speaking with wisdom and knowledge (1 & 2) seem contraindicated in posts here and remarks elsewhere. If Paul/Saul's subjects have been given doses of either, what were they like originally or previously?

[Jagella]

Speaking with wisdom and knowledge (1 & 2) seem contraindicated in posts here and remarks elsewhere.

ROFL! I do hope you're not referring to my posts.

If Paul/Saul's subjects have been given doses of either, what were they like originally or previously?

I think it's fair to say that if anybody received 1 and 2, then they wouldn't waste their time believing in 3 to 9.

[bjs]

Question for Debate: Can any Christian here demonstrate that any of these "gifts" are anything more than delusions?

Over the internet? No. That seems like something that could only be demonstrated in person. Even then, someone really committed to their atheism could dismiss any demonstration of such gifts regardless of if the gifts are real or not.

[Tcg]

Question for Debate: Can any Christian here demonstrate that any of these "gifts" are anything more than delusions?

Over the internet? No. That seems like something that could only be demonstrated in person. Even then, someone really committed to their atheism could dismiss any demonstration of such gifts regardless of if the gifts are real or not.

I've seen many Christians argue over the problems claims concerning these "gifts" present.

It's easy to attempt to dismiss this as a problem only atheists recognize. That dismissal, however, doesn't represent reality.


Tcg

[Zzyzx]

.

Can any Christian here demonstrate that any of these "gifts" are anything more than delusions?

Over the internet? No. That seems like something that could only be demonstrated in person. Even then, someone really committed to their atheism could dismiss any demonstration of such gifts regardless of if the gifts are real or not.

How, exactly, could anyone demonstrate the 'gifts' in person?
1. utterance of wisdom
2. utterance of knowledge

I'm not asking who would or would not dismiss or accept the demonstration but am asking exactly how it would / could be demonstrated in person that wisdom and knowledge have been gifted to them (or Christians) spiritually.

Perhaps the 'gift' skipped over a lot of Christians?

[Jagella]

Over the internet? No. That seems like something that could only be demonstrated in person.

It's strange that the Holy Ghost cannot manifest his power over the internet. Even words of wisdom don't seem to be forthcoming.

Even then, someone really committed to their atheism could dismiss any demonstration of such gifts regardless of if the gifts are real or not.

Committed atheists might be tough eggs to crack, all right, even for the Holy Ghost. I'm not sure why you're so confident that they would dismiss the gifts of the Spirit, though. To know that they would do so, wouldn't we need to demonstrate a gift of the Spirit to them first and then observe how they would react?

In any case, thanks for answering that no, you cannot demonstrate the spiritual gifts online. Have you ever done so in person, and did you ever convince doubters that it can be done?

[Tcg]

Committed atheists might be tough eggs to crack, all right, even for the Holy Ghost. I'm not sure why you're so confident that they would dismiss the gifts of the Spirit, though. To know that they would do so, wouldn't we need to demonstrate a gift of the Spirit to them first and then observe how they would react?

This is undoubtedly true and we'd have to do the same for some theists given they too are equally skeptical:

[Replying to post 58 by 2timothy316]

I often wonder, if there are REAL healers amongst us, why they don't empty all the hospitals on Earth of the sick, maimed and dying!

And that's my point too OWH. If there really where Gifts as described in the Bible still around today, then they'd be famous and not infamous, like Benny Hinn.

Tcg

[Jagella]

Committed atheists might be tough eggs to crack, all right, even for the Holy Ghost. I'm not sure why you're so confident that they would dismiss the gifts of the Spirit, though. To know that they would do so, wouldn't we need to demonstrate a gift of the Spirit to them first and then observe how they would react?

This is undoubtedly true and we'd have to do the same for some theists given they too are equally skeptical...

One of the most common arguments I've heard from apologists regarding the dearth of miracles is that miracles wouldn't convert unbelievers even if those unbelievers saw miracles. I think there may be some truth to this apologetic because true miracles could be hard to distinguish from trickery or hallucinations. Since we know that people can be tricked by sleight of hand or hallucinations, but we don't know if miracles do occur, then it makes better sense to me to conclude that apparent miracles have naturalistic explanations.

And yes, I think that even many Christians might not believe miracles if they saw them. I think they would be skeptical because I've known Christians who don't believe that faith healing is real.

[JJ50]

[Replying to post 1 by Jagella]

Not in my opinion. I am familiar with people speaking in so called 'tongues' at the Pentecostal church I attended as a child. They made complete idiots of themselves.