To where did Jesus ascend?

[marco]

We have in Luke 24:51:
"While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven."


We now know that heaven is not in the area of the clouds. Of course in the time of Christ it was believed that the home of God was in the sky: heaven and sky are often the same.

Does this account show that there was fabrication, based on false beliefs?

If Jesus knew heaven wasn't in the sky, why would he employ deception, rising to nowhere?


Or is the account - as usual - figurative. Jesus was raised to eminence, but not literally.

[marco]

I disagree with that, because atheists have so many difficulties in understanding what the Bible tells.

That is a proud boast, 1213. I wonder which complex detail eludes me, and manages to penetrate your understanding. Bible sentences rendered in the language we speak
are all too easy to understand; it is their multiple interpretations that cause problems, and people interpret things accordining to the own religious tastes.

It requires no great understanding to judge a being, who wants every baby and animal slaughtered, to be a product of a monstrous imagination.

I disagree with that because Bible has shown right knowledge about matters that happen long after it was written. For example, the scattering and gathering of Jews.

Coincidence is a mischievous sprite, 1213. It can cause a dancing native to believe a rain storm was caused by his feet when his prayer for rain is answered.

….Yahweh your God will turn your captivity, and have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples, where Yahweh your God has scattered you. If any of your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there will Yahweh your God gather you, and from there will he bring you back:
Deuteronomy 30:1-4

Is this a poem or a prediction? How many Jews were in the uttermost parts of the heavens? And what of the millions who were slaughtered in the Holocaust - where was their promised land? There never was nor is a promised land. Modern Israel occupies a piece of Hell, surrounded by enemies. Is this God's idea of security? Was wandering in the wilderness for forty years (!!!) the answer to a prayer?

[1213]

But 1213, there are enormous difficulties reconciling the Bible and human nature not to mention that political leaders have found the Bible to be very useful.

Please give one example of difficulty in “reconciling the Bible and human nature� and how Bible is politically useful for leaders?

Do you care to concede that the Bible was made up by people, or would you prefer to look for another argument that it could not have come from people?

I believe Bible is written by people, but in guidance of God, because without God, people don’t seem to understand what the Bible tells and it seems they don’t even want to hear or understand it. Also, I think people would not know many of the things Bible tells, without God.

[1213]

…are all too easy to understand; it is their multiple interpretations that cause problems, and people interpret things accordining to the own religious tastes….

Maybe so, if the message is only from people, why they didn’t make it so that there would be no need to twist the message with own interpretations? I think it is weird why people commonly read for example history books as they are, without interpretations, but for some reason there is irresistible need to twist the Bible to human desires. I think, if people would be the source, they would have made it so that it fits to their desires, because that is what people normally do.

But, obviously you are free to believe what you want to believe, I think it is just not reasonable idea that Bible would be purely from human imagination. Humans don’t have that good imagination. Most if not all of what people imagine is based on what they see and hear.

Coincidence is a mischievous sprite, 1213. It can cause a dancing native to believe a rain storm was caused by his feet when his prayer for rain is answered.

I don’t believe in coincidences, but it can be possible that some things are not related. It always comes to probabilities, and I think it is not probable that people would know things that well without God.

….Yahweh your God will turn your captivity, and have compassion on you, and will return and gather you from all the peoples, where Yahweh your God has scattered you. If any of your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of the heavens, from there will Yahweh your God gather you, and from there will he bring you back:
Deuteronomy 30:1-4

Is this a poem or a prediction? How many Jews were in the uttermost parts of the heavens? And what of the millions who were slaughtered in the Holocaust - where was their promised land? There never was nor is a promised land. Modern Israel occupies a piece of Hell, surrounded by enemies. Is this God's idea of security? Was wandering in the wilderness for forty years (!!!) the answer to a prayer?

It says “if�, that is not same as saying there is Jews in uttermost parts of heaven. However, I think it is possible that some Jews could be astronauts and in space.

Bible doesn’t tell that all “Jews� will have the promised land.

[Zzyzx]

.

Coincidence is a mischievous sprite, 1213. It can cause a dancing native to believe a rain storm was caused by his feet when his prayer for rain is answered.

I don’t believe in coincidences, but it can be possible that some things are not related. It always comes to probabilities, and I think it is not probable that people would know things that well without God.

If you 'don't believe in concidence', (a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance: www.dictionary.com/browse/coincidenceng), do you propose that rain following a rain dance is NOT coincidence (chance occurrence)?

Is this is a language problem?

[For_The_Kingdom]

We have in Luke 24:51:
"While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven."


We now know that heaven is not in the area of the clouds. Of course in the time of Christ it was believed that the home of God was in the sky: heaven and sky are often the same.

Does this account show that there was fabrication, based on false beliefs?

If Jesus knew heaven wasn't in the sky, why would he employ deception, rising to nowhere?


Or is the account - as usual - figurative. Jesus was raised to eminence, but not literally.

Yet, another sensationalizing post from marco. Jesus was carried up to heaven, marco.

The angel told them that he will return the same way he left, in Acts...and Revelations/Daniel harmonizes with this by stating that Jesus is returning in/from the clouds.

This all points to a literal return from the heavens.

This is a non-issue, a question that need not be asked except for sensationalizing purposes.

[SallyF]

We have in Luke 24:51:
"While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven."


We now know that heaven is not in the area of the clouds. Of course in the time of Christ it was believed that the home of God was in the sky: heaven and sky are often the same.

Does this account show that there was fabrication, based on false beliefs?

If Jesus knew heaven wasn't in the sky, why would he employ deception, rising to nowhere?


Or is the account - as usual - figurative. Jesus was raised to eminence, but not literally.

Yet, another sensationalizing post from marco. Jesus was carried up to heaven, marco.

The angel told them that he will return the same way he left, in Acts...and Revelations/Daniel harmonizes with this by stating that Jesus is returning in/from the clouds.

This all points to a literal return from the heavens.

This is a non-issue, a question that need not be asked except for sensationalizing purposes.

Or "heaven" is simply sectarian jargon for part of their religious building.

No magic, no legions of angels, no gods - just human make-believe and human fantasy propaganda.

Not a soul ever demonstrates that a word of "scripture" came from ANYWHERE other than human imaginations.

[1213]

If you 'don't believe in concidence', (a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance: www.dictionary.com/browse/coincidenceng), do you propose that rain following a rain dance is NOT coincidence (chance occurrence)?

Is this is a language problem?

Ok, thank you, I was thinking more that all things that happen have some reason. But I agree that it is possible that for example in the case of rain, the reason may be something else than the dance, even if the rain comes after the dance.

[For_The_Kingdom]

We have in Luke 24:51:
"While He was blessing them, He parted from them and was carried up into heaven."


We now know that heaven is not in the area of the clouds. Of course in the time of Christ it was believed that the home of God was in the sky: heaven and sky are often the same.

Does this account show that there was fabrication, based on false beliefs?

If Jesus knew heaven wasn't in the sky, why would he employ deception, rising to nowhere?


Or is the account - as usual - figurative. Jesus was raised to eminence, but not literally.

Yet, another sensationalizing post from marco. Jesus was carried up to heaven, marco.

The angel told them that he will return the same way he left, in Acts...and Revelations/Daniel harmonizes with this by stating that Jesus is returning in/from the clouds.

This all points to a literal return from the heavens.

This is a non-issue, a question that need not be asked except for sensationalizing purposes.

Or "heaven" is simply sectarian jargon for part of their religious building.

No magic, no legions of angels, no gods - just human make-believe and human fantasy propaganda.

Not a soul ever demonstrates that a word of "scripture" came from ANYWHERE other than human imaginations.

Human fantasy propaganda: inanimate matter (dead matter), coming to life..and beginning to think, talk, and copulate.

Doesn't get any more fanciful than that.

[Difflugia]

Human fantasy propaganda: inanimate matter (dead matter), coming to life..and beginning to think, talk, and copulate.

Doesn't get any more fanciful than that.

Jesus tried to copulate after the resurrection? Is that in Acts somewhere?

[SallyF]

For those who see things as figurative - "Heaven" may simply be sectarian jargon for part of a religious building.