144,000 Redeemed

[SallyF]

I understand that certain/most/nearly all Christians are quite convinced in their minds that Christianity holds the monopoly on gaining "Heaven" (which is some sort of parallel universe or the like these days) and they believe that non-Christians are going to roast in the fire Jesus mentioned (except for those Christians who have tossed that notion out of the gondola of belief along with all the other non-marketable stuff that is now just "figurative", of course).

But for certain Christians, there are mansions for only 144,000 Christians in The Metaphysical Universe (or whatever). Which means that if one has not chosen the RIGHT Christianity, one is likely to roast … according to certain Christians.

And these Christians quote "scripture" (who doesn't …?) WHO ARE THE 144,000? CAN I BE ONE OF THEM? HOW CAN I KNOW? "These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living, are counted as "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 15:2, 3; 14:1-5.

What are the apologetics that wiggle us out of the particularist exclusivity of the limited places in "Heaven" belief: and do they have extrabiblical support …? Or should we genuinely tremble that not only non-Christians, but Christians who've been paying into the wrong collection plates, will also not gain this Transcendent Metaphysical Parallel Dimension Universe Heaven (or whatever) …?

[SallyF]

But for certain Christians, there are mansions for only 144,000 Christians in The Metaphysical Universe (or whatever). Which means that if one has not chosen the RIGHT Christianity, one is likely to roast … according to certain Christians.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only group I am aware of that call themselves Christians and believe that only 144,000 people will “The Metaphysical Universe� (they usually use the word “Heaven�). JW’s say that many people who are not in Heaven itself will be on a “New Earth.� JW’s do not say that those who are not in the 144,000 will “burn.�

So there is no group of “certain Christians� who teach what has been descried here.

From memory, that JW "doctrine" came about to wiggle out of the difficulty of there being more than 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses.

The good folks in the Watchtower these days do still tell us of a kind of tepid Lake of Fire (one does that when one's beliefs aren't marketable any more) …

As does Gehenna, the lake of fire symbolizes eternal destruction. Death and Hades are “hurled into� it in that they will be done away with when mankind is freed from sin and the condemnation of death. Willful, unrepentant sinners will also have their “portion� in that lake. (Revelation 21:8) They too will be annihilated forever. On the other hand, those in God’s memory who are in hell​—the common grave of mankind—​have a marvelous future. https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002521


However, those who preach the love of the Jehovah version of "God" tell us of an even WORSE place than Hell ...

Not everyone who dies goes to hell, though. The Bible shows that some people become so steeped in wickedness that they are beyond repentance. (Hebrews 10:26, 27) When such ones die, they go, not to hell, but to Gehenna, which is a symbol of everlasting destruction. (Matthew 5:​29, 30) For example, Jesus indicated that some of the hypocritical religious leaders in his day would go to Gehenna.​—Matthew 23:27-​33. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... s-to-hell/

All without a peep of verifiable evidence that so much as a word of it DID actually emanate in any way from Jehovah ... or any other version of "God".

[SallyF]

...
But for certain Christians, there are mansions for only 144,000 Christians in The Metaphysical Universe (or whatever). Which means that if one has not chosen the RIGHT Christianity, one is likely to roast … according to certain Christians.
...

I don’t know about the mansions, but I know this:

I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel: Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, Of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, … …After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
Rev. 7:4-9

So, in the Bible the 144000 means living people on earth that are from the tribes of Israel at that moment. In addition to those there is the group that couldn’t be numbered. But it doesn’t speak of mansions. But on basis of that, more than 144000 will go to “heaven� or at least are not roasted like in some tv show.

I too suspect that was the original meaning.

But such things never seem to stop certain neighbour-loving Christians interpreting things to give themselves exclusivity and correctness.

[SallyF]

I grew up believing the Jesus, the former carpenter's son and creator of the cosmos, had Ascended back up to just above the clouds where Heaven used to be before Progressive Christianity kept moving it away, and there he had strapped on the nail bag to build me my mansion for when I died and joined him for Eternity in the New Jerusalem in the sky (or other dimension).

Every Christian I went to Sunday school and Bible camp with believed they too would get a mansion. Especially those who lived in public housing.

Even though the book of Revelation didn't directly mention the mansions, in standard Christian fashion, other pieces of "scripture" were cobbled on to give the desired result.

The problem for SOME believers is/was that there was only enough divine plumbing for 144,000 mansions, and one needed to be VERY certain one followed the rules EXACTLY or one may end up in the "other" place.

Obedience, therefore, was PARAMOUNT.

And, of course, the Holy Ghost was counting just how much of your pocket money went into the collection plate each week as a sort of down payment on ensuring one of the mansions would have your name over the door … so I believed.

[1213]

…Perhaps, instead of a drive by, you can elaborate on what you think a creature such as God's goals are?

I think the goals are what the Bible tells they are. In Bible it seems to depend on situation and there seems to be many goals. Many of them are things that have happened already, but then there is for example this:

This gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matt. 24:14

…Freewill is clearly not a goal.

Please explain why do you think so?

[The Nice Centurion]

And these Christians quote "scripture" (who doesn't …?) WHO ARE THE 144,000? CAN I BE ONE OF THEM? HOW CAN I KNOW? "These, having been translated from the earth, from among the living, are counted as "the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb." Revelation 15:2, 3; 14:1-5.

You must become one of the ruling council of Jehovahs Witnesses.
They are convinced to be among the 144.000
But be no woman please, for the council is men only!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governi ... operations.