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Some members seem to have the mistaken attitude / opinion that they occupy a superior position in life or in debate by virtue of their religious beliefs; perhaps because they are ‘saved’ or ‘chosen’ by one of the proposed ‘gods’ – or because they claim to have been given wisdom and/or knowledge by a ghost.
One might be cautious about claiming (or even thinking) they have been granted special knowledge or wisdom or ability. Unless they are exceptionally capable, claiming to have help getting where they are suggests they started in a deep hole and/or have required assistance to become mediocre.
Apologists often convey the notion that Non-Christians cannot understand the Bible – as though religious belief conveyed special understanding of the written word. This conveniently ignores the fact that Christians themselves cannot agree on their ‘understanding’ of the Bible (as evidenced by tens of thousands of Christian denominations with different beliefs about the Bible). It also ignores the fact that many present Non-Christians are, in fact, Ex-Christians (some devout believers for decades before concluding the religious beliefs are based on hokum).
Edited to add question for debate since thread has been moved to C&A
Question for debate: Does theistic position confer a superior position in life and/or in debate?
Delusions of Superiority?
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Zzyzx
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Delusions of Superiority?
Post #1
Last edited by Zzyzx on Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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Zzyzx
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Post #31
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Those who are unaccustomed to debate and/or those who are accustomed to presenting their spiel to fawning audiences may feel oppressed when encountering strong opposition.
They often seem to regard opposition views as personal attack and retaliate by ad hominem remarks rather than attempting legitimate, honorable, rational debate.
I have found preachers (personal friends as well as on-line) to be among the worst debaters; perhaps because in church they are ‘authorities’ whose word is seldom or never challenged. Under conditions where they are not given preferential treatment, they often get flustered, frustrated, angry, hostile, and accusatory.
In-the-pew Christians often react similarly when encountering our 'level playing field' of debate where their beliefs are not given preferential treatment (as they are when surrounded by fellow believers).
Those who are unaccustomed to debate and/or those who are accustomed to presenting their spiel to fawning audiences may feel oppressed when encountering strong opposition.
They often seem to regard opposition views as personal attack and retaliate by ad hominem remarks rather than attempting legitimate, honorable, rational debate.
I have found preachers (personal friends as well as on-line) to be among the worst debaters; perhaps because in church they are ‘authorities’ whose word is seldom or never challenged. Under conditions where they are not given preferential treatment, they often get flustered, frustrated, angry, hostile, and accusatory.
In-the-pew Christians often react similarly when encountering our 'level playing field' of debate where their beliefs are not given preferential treatment (as they are when surrounded by fellow believers).
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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Eloi
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Post #32
Some people do not know that a debate is based on a specific approach that must be demonstrated or refuted. On this thread I have only read disqualifications based on their "philosophy of life". What is the matter to discuss in this post so that it is in a debate area? 
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Zzyzx
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Post #33
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[Replying to post 32 by Eloi]
Question for debate has been added.
Feel free contribute to debate of the topic.
[Replying to post 32 by Eloi]
Question for debate has been added.
Feel free contribute to debate of the topic.
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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Eloi
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Post #34
I still don't know what is the "question" to debate about.
Can you be more specific?
Remember that a debate originates from an approach that must be demonstrated or refuted, not a question. To start a topic with a question is to "place" it in the "general discussions" section.
Maybe somebody should teach others what a debate is ... cause some do not have the slightest idea. Or maybe I am wrong.
Can you be more specific?
Remember that a debate originates from an approach that must be demonstrated or refuted, not a question. To start a topic with a question is to "place" it in the "general discussions" section.
Maybe somebody should teach others what a debate is ... cause some do not have the slightest idea. Or maybe I am wrong.
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Eloi
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Post #35
I saw the question:
Question for debate: Does theistic position confer a superior position in life and/or in debate?
I don't think so, the same way atheistic position does not confer a superior position in life and/or in debate.
Question for debate: Does theistic position confer a superior position in life and/or in debate?
I don't think so, the same way atheistic position does not confer a superior position in life and/or in debate.
Last edited by Eloi on Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tcg
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Post #36
For this site, you are wrong:Eloi wrote:
Remember that a debate originates from an approach that must be demonstrated or refuted, not a question. To start a topic with a question is to "place" it in the "general discussions" section.
Maybe somebody should teach others what a debate is ... cause some do not have the slightest idea. Or maybe I am wrong.
otseng wrote:
7. Have a clear question for debate in the opening post.
If there is no question for debate, it will be moved to RR. If the thread title contains the question, reiterate the question in the post.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Eloi
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Post #37
I guess my last post answers that:
Does theistic position confer a superior position in life and/or in debate?
I don't think so, the same way atheistic position does not confer a superior position in life and/or in debate.
Does theistic position confer a superior position in life and/or in debate?
I don't think so, the same way atheistic position does not confer a superior position in life and/or in debate.
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Tcg
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Post #38
Some theists claim to have the indwelling Holy Spirit which allows them to understand the Bible properly. They also claim that atheist's understanding of the Bible is flawed given that they don't have the Holy Spirit. Do you agree or disagree with these claims?Eloi wrote: I guess my last post answers that:
Does theistic position confer a superior position in life and/or in debate?
I don't think so, the same way atheistic position does not confer a superior position in life and/or in debate.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
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Eloi
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Post #39
The same way, some non-theistic see themself as they are the Meca of the Knowledge, and they think they must convince others of what they believe to "save" them from something.
Theist and non-theist are both humans, and there is not any human superior to another human, wheter theistic or not.
Theist and non-theist are both humans, and there is not any human superior to another human, wheter theistic or not.
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Tcg
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Post #40
Eloi wrote: The same way, some non-theistic see themself as they are the Meca of the Knowledge, and they must convince others of what they believe. Normal, theist and non-theist are both humans, and there is not any human superior to another human, wheter theistic or not.
I'm not sure if this intended to be an answer to my post or not.
If it is, please explain how it is an answer to the question I asked.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
- American Atheists
Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
- wiploc
I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
- Irvin D. Yalom
