The Doctrine of Trinity is a false doctrine and is unbiblica

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ResentfulBelly17
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Post #11

Post by ResentfulBelly17 »

[Replying to Wootah]

I'm proving my stand with my 1st presentation, you should be cross examining me

Wootah
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Post #12

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to ResentfulBelly17]

Ok do you have a link to this debate format so I can see what you want?

My post 5 has lots for you to reply to.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

ResentfulBelly17
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Post #13

Post by ResentfulBelly17 »

[Replying to Wootah]


Debate Format:

I. Affirmative 1st stand
II. Negative cross examination
III. Negative 1st stand
IV. Affirmative cross examination
V. Affirmative 2nd stand
VI. Negative cross examination
VII. Negative 2nd stand
VIII. Affirmative cross examination
IX. Affirmative 3rd stand
X. Negative cross examination
XI. Negative 3rd stand
XII. Affirmative cross examination
XIII. Affirmative conclusion
XIV. Negative conclusion

Note: cross examination is max of 10 questions

Wootah
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Post #14

Post by Wootah »

Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

ResentfulBelly17
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Post #15

Post by ResentfulBelly17 »

[Replying to Wootah]

That's not cross examination, you presented on your post 5. You must ask me a question about my 1st stand. Max of 10 questions

Wootah
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Re: The Doctrine of Trinity is a false doctrine and is unbib

Post #16

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 1 by ResentfulBelly17]

On Mark 12:29
I don't see why a man or God or angel or devil can't recite the shema. There is nothing special in this to your argument. We both say we believe the shema in this debate.

Q1: Why did you think this passage did anything for your case?


On John 17:3
I fear this will be common in the debate but we have to distinguish Jesus' role as fully man and fully God. Jesus is the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 and he plays the role of the good, obedient son unto death. As such, as a man, he worships God and shows us how to worship God. Jesus shows us what it means to love God with our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbour as ourselves.

I do think it a trifle disturbing that if Jesus is not God then what on God's green earth is he doing injecting himself into the Bible so passionately and determinedly. This will be one of my major points later in the debate but even here, Jesus (as not God in your view) is asking in John 17:3 that eternal life depends on knowing God and knowing a not God being called Jesus. That seems theologically disasterous if you believe in the Shema.

Q2: In light of the shema which you value why do you not reject the new testament about a not God being called Jesus?

Q3: Do I need to know about God to be saved or about a not God person (or creature) called Jesus?

To re-emphasise my point here. You claim the shema is a clear statement of one being called God and we both know God despises idols and fake gods and fake lords and yet on the most important theological issue, our salvation, where our souls are at stake and believing the shema determines where we spend eternity, Jesus who, you think is not God has the audacity to insert himself into what it means to gain eternal life? No wonder the Jews who were preserving God's word fought so hard to get rid of Jesus and protect the shema!

Q4: Do you think the jews were trying to protect the shema when they were persecuting Jesus?


On 1 Cor 8:6
If we can both agree that this is clearly, letter for letter, talking about God alone then your use of 1 Cor 8:6 is in error because the Lord = God and the Lord = One. Paul in 1 Cor 8 clearly references the shema in the discussion of idols, and it compares the many gods and lords to the shema to the one God the Father and the one Lord Jesus Christ. I don't understand how you consider this verse as favouring your position when the shema is clearly using the word Lord about God and in the same passage Paul references Jesus as Lord. Paul is clearly intending for us to understand that the Lord Jesus is the Lord in the Shema.

Q5: How did you get this verse so wrong? Can you reply to my commentry?

On John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.� Did you mean to cite that verse? If not let me know and you can update your post or tell me which one and I will address it.

Q6: Did you mean John 20:27, it seems like the wrong verse?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

ResentfulBelly17
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Re: The Doctrine of Trinity is a false doctrine and is unbib

Post #17

Post by ResentfulBelly17 »

[Replying to Wootah]

My answers:

#1. The Shema teaches that the Lord our God is one Lord, if the trinity is a truth later revealed in the NT, then Mark 12:29 could have been the best opportunity for Jesus to reveal it instead he echoed the Shema. It's no surprise that Jesus didnt rebuke the teacher when he acknowledges Jesus answer and said further that he is right that God is one and no other beside him.

#2. There is no issue in John 17:3, it categorically introduces to us who is the one true God which is the Father. If you are confused on why Jesus said eternal life depeds on knowing a non-God as you say it, then you clearly dont know his purpose why he was sent.

#3. You need to know both. John said to you not to be troubled and believe on both :) john 14:1

Will answer the rest later[/quote]

ResentfulBelly17
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Re: The Doctrine of Trinity is a false doctrine and is unbib

Post #18

Post by ResentfulBelly17 »

[Replying to post 17 by ResentfulBelly17]

#4. I dont see an issue here since Jesus was sent by God himself and again, believing Jesus is tantamaount in believing also in God. Afterall Jesus did not preach a different God but his Father alone. So there's really no issue here. The Father himself said we should listen to his Son in Luke 9:35. Afterall it doesnt diminish God to a lower level rather it glorified him if we have faith in His son.

#5. I dont agree with you in 1 cor 8:6. This scripture shows two classificatio, one who is the only true God and one who is our Lord. There's no confusion here since this is very categorical. And arent you wondering why did Paul just said that the only person who is the only God is the Father? For me if Paul was a trinitarian he shouldve said "for us there is only one God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit but no, he categorically defined that person who is the only God as the Father

#6. I meant John 20:17

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Post #19

Post by Wootah »

#1. The Shema teaches that the Lord our God is one Lord, if the trinity is a truth later revealed in the NT, then Mark 12:29 could have been the best opportunity for Jesus to reveal it instead he echoed the Shema. It's no surprise that Jesus didnt rebuke the teacher when he acknowledges Jesus answer and said further that he is right that God is one and no other beside him.

#5. I dont agree with you in 1 cor 8:6. This scripture shows two classificatio, one who is the only true God and one who is our Lord. There's no confusion here since this is very categorical. And arent you wondering why did Paul just said that the only person who is the only God is the Father? For me if Paul was a trinitarian he shouldve said "for us there is only one God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit but no, he categorically defined that person who is the only God as the Father

There is an obvious contradiction between point 1 and 5.

So does the Shema teach that the Lord God is one Lord or is there two classifications, one who is the only true God and one who is our Lord?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

ResentfulBelly17
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Post #20

Post by ResentfulBelly17 »

[Replying to post 19 by Wootah]

So this is you 7th question: it's not a contradiction, in 1 cor 8:6, Paul is not reciting the Shema, the context is in ancient greece, people have many gods (zeus, athena, apollo etc) but Paul stressed to the greeks that though they may have a handful of God, for Paul and other christians there is ONLY ONE who is truly God which is the Father. This was more of an echo of Christ's prayer to the Father in John 17:3

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