Is the price higher?

[OnceConvinced]

In another thread:

it doesn’t require anything to be an atheist, but to be a Christian, it can have a price.

So:

Is it harder to be a Christian than an atheist?
Is there a higher price to pay being a Christian?

[1213]

…
Your testimony contradicts it. …

Please explain how?

[1213]

…Not only does sinning require effort, it would require having to live through a lot of guilt. Even just the thought of breaking many of God's commands, even now would bring me a great deal of anguish even just thinking about doing them. There is the fear of being caught, the fear of what people will say and think, the fear of consequences...

I think it is sad if the fear of what other people may think is the reason to not do bad things.

… Atheism is simply a position held to one particular belief. The fact is we still have to follow rules just like Christians do. Just like everybody else does…

My original point was, � it doesn’t require anything to be an atheist, but to be a Christian, it can have a price.� So, it seems to me that we agree, atheist may follow rules, but the rules are not from atheism itself. Therefore, atheism itself doesn’t require anything. One doesn’t have to do anything to be an atheist. But of course, atheist can make his own rules and follow them, or somebody else’s rules, if he wants. It just is not from atheism.

…Interesting that we atheists too can have that purpose too isn't it?

Not really. I think all people can choose purpose for their life. I think sad purpose is to fight against Bible God, as many atheists seem to do.

[OnceConvinced]

I think it is sad if the fear of what other people may think is the reason to not do bad things.

So you would rather we have people in this world who don't care what other people think? Our prisons are full of people like that. So are our streets.

You've taken one motivator out of context and ignored the others. You've also conviently ignored compassion and empathy which are powerful motivators to do good.

What about yourself? Do you think it's a sad thing to fear what you will think of yourself if you do bad things? That's one of my biggest motivators not to do evil. I'd be beating myself up. I'm my biggest judge. Heck you're corresponding with a guy who still feels guilt about bullying a girl at school when he was five years old. The sickening feeling I felt about myself due to that has stopped me from ever bullying anyone again.

Anyway, what's the difference between being afraid of what other people might think or being afraid of what a god might think? In fact believing in a god can lead you to commit all types of horrible attrocities, all because you think you're doing what God wants.

My original point was, � it doesn’t require anything to be an atheist,

Which as shown in this thread is completely untrue.

but to be a Christian, it can have a price.�

And as you can see, by this thread. Not as high as the price of being an atheist.

So, it seems to me that we agree, atheist may follow rules, but the rules are not from atheism itself.

They don't have to be.

Therefore, atheism itself doesn’t require anything.

How wrong you are. It cost me my Chrisitan faith. I'm sure that's a bigger price to pay than anything you've paid isn't it?'

But once again, it isn't a matter of just doing nothing. It requires so much. I know, because I've paid that price and continue to pay it. And if your fellow Christians are correct then its cost me my mortal soul.

One doesn’t have to do anything to be an atheist.

And all one has to do as a Christian is accept a free gift, right? No free gifts when it comes to atheism.

But of course, atheist can make his own rules and follow them, or somebody else’s rules, if he wants. It just is not from atheism.

If you say atheism demands nothing of you then it doesn't give you anything either eg, freedom to make your own rules.

It seems to me you want to make Atheism this little club where there are no rules and no morals. Which is blatantly wrong. Remember the term atheist only applies to someone's stance over one belief. Nothing more. It's not a license to make your own rules or determine what is moral and what is not. None of that comes with atheism at all.

When one becomes an atheist, you don't just suddenly become an anarchist or a rebel. You don't swear a pledge and say things like:
I will only obey my own rules
I'll decide what is moral or not.
I'll do whatever I like
To hell with everyone else.

Nope. It doesn't work that way. You're trying to add something to atheism that's not there.

If for one moment you could imagine there is a world without a rule-making God then you might be able to see what I am getting at. But I think the fact you believe in a god keeps you within a certain mindselt. One that says God makes the rules and if you don't believe in that god then you have no rules.

. I think sad purpose is to fight against Bible God, as many atheists seem to do.

It's certainly not one of my purposes. Has any atheist ever told you that's their purpose in life or are you just presuming that? Just because people might spend a few hours a day on here debating doesn't mean it's their purpose in life to be fighting against the bible god.

[Tcg]

…
Your testimony contradicts it. …

Please explain how?

I already have. If your intention is to resolve your contradiction, you are free to attempt it.


Tcg

[Elijah John]

...
Is it harder to be a Christian than an atheist?
Is there a higher price to pay being a Christian?

I think one way to look at this is to ask, what atheism demands and what God demands. By what I know, atheism itself doesn’t demand anything, but God demands.

As OC points out, life has it's own demands. Even for, or perhaps especially for, the atheist.

[Zzyzx]

.

As OC points out, life has it's own demands. Even for, or perhaps especially for, the atheist.

Why 'perhaps especially for the Atheist' EJ?

How might life have demands for an Atheist that are special (or especially) or more than demands upon Theists?

[Danmark]

I have two separate responses.

1st, In one sense it is harder to be an atheist and face the chaos without the comforting belief that a heavenly father will guide and protect you, then reward you with eternal life where you can meet up again with your 'dearly departed,' or in my case, favorite drinking buddies.

2d, Tho' it is easy to be a Bible believing Christian, because there is no real standard there. This is shown by many so called Christians who cast their ballots for the most shameful of people and pursue earthly rewards.

However, to really live like Jesus, the Jesus of the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount, that is more difficult than being an atheist. In fact it is impossible, tho' a worthy goal. A quote attributed* to Gandhi speaks for me:

"I like your Christ. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."



______________________________
*There's no evidence Gandhi actually said this, but it seems consistent with other things he said.

[1213]

…You've taken one motivator out of context and ignored the others. You've also conviently ignored compassion and empathy which are powerful motivators to do good…

They can be motivators. But I think good and right should not depend on feelings, but on reason.

What about yourself? Do you think it's a sad thing to fear what you will think of yourself if you do bad things?

I think sad thing is if I cause bad/wrong things to others, because it can be painful for them.

Anyway, what's the difference between being afraid of what other people might think or being afraid of what a god might think?

I agree, there is not much difference. I think people should do good and right because they understand it is good and right.

…It seems to me you want to make Atheism this little club where there are no rules and no morals. ...

Please tell, what are the rules of atheism?

[1213]

…
Your testimony contradicts it. …

Please explain how?

I already have. If your intention is to resolve your contradiction, you are free to attempt it.

Sorry, there is really no contradiction.

[Danmark]

…You've taken one motivator out of context and ignored the others. You've also conviently ignored compassion and empathy which are powerful motivators to do good…

They can be motivators. But I think good and right should not depend on feelings, but on reason.

What about yourself? Do you think it's a sad thing to fear what you will think of yourself if you do bad things?

I think sad thing is if I cause bad/wrong things to others, because it can be painful for them.

Anyway, what's the difference between being afraid of what other people might think or being afraid of what a god might think?

I agree, there is not much difference. I think people should do good and right because they understand it is good and right.

…It seems to me you want to make Atheism this little club where there are no rules and no morals. ...

Please tell, what are the rules of atheism?

This is an inappropriate question. You might as well ask, "What are the rules of the color blue?" Atheism is not a religion, it is the absence of religion, or more technically 'the absence of a god based religion. As a wit said long ago, "Atheism is a religion like 'Off' is a TV channel."

The only 'rule' of atheism is its definition, 'the absence of a belief in gods.'

I don't know why this concept is so difficult to accept for so many who have religious beliefs. Atheism is not a philosophy, or a lifestyle, or even a belief system. It is simply an absence of a belief in Gods. It is true that naturalism is a concomitant belief that coincides with atheism, but even those two are separate, the former being a system of beliefs about the development of the natural world without a god or gods.