How do you know so much about God?

[Zzyzx]

.
How do you know so much about God?

I study the Bible

I have read the Bible too

But I believe and I study the Bible not just read it.

I don’t believe. Does that mean that I can’t learn?

You cannot learn its true meaning and its lessons without believing


Questions for debate:

1. Does ‘must believe to learn’ apply in general or just to the Bible?

2. Does a Bible scholar who isn’t a believer know less than bible readers who believe?

[JJ50]

The Bible is written by authors who have created their version of god in the image which suits them, imo.

[Divine Insight]

You cannot learn its true meaning and its lessons without believing

This is the spam that theists have fallen for. They didn't make this stuff up. It actually comes with the dogma. They are taught to believe this by the dogma itself.

However, we know for a fact that this is totally fallacious because people who are convinced that they believe in this stuff all come away from having read it with different opinions and views.

Religious people need to truly be naive to think that believers can understand the Bible when it's a well-known fact that believers are not in agreement with each other over what the Bible has to say.

I've her Jehovah's Witnesses make nasty accusations toward Catholic calling Catholicism "The Whore of Babylon". But we know that's nonsense. There are countless Catholics who are just as strong believers as any Jehovah's Witnesses. All this amounts to are theists basically using their theism to belittle each other.

Anyone who can't see through this nonsense by now must necessarily be in extreme denial. This has been going on for centuries if not millennia. How long does it take people to catch onto the fact that this dogma has them believing obvious proven lies?

Theists must necessarily accuse each other on large scales that all the people in opposing sects and factions of Christianity simply don't truly "believe".

How can they not see the futility in this practice?

The greatest mystery surrounding these many divisive religions is the simple fact that modern day humans can't even see the obvious folly of these theologies.

A very sad fact about humankind to be sure.

We could be expanding the human race throughout our solar system by now. But people are too busy hating on each other over obvious make-believe Gods and Goblins. And yes, they all believe in Goblins to be sure. What theist doesn't believe in demons?

Without the existence of demons they would have no excuses for why their God is so helpless and inept.

The Christian God had to have humans nail him to a pole in an effort to beat a demon called Satan.

So yeah, they definitely believe in Goblins every bit as much as they believe in their Gods.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

I am afraid that your premise is wrong.
Most people who have faith in the Bible are unfamiliar with it. They cherrypick a few of their favorite verses, often out of context and claim the know the work.

They often claim their favorite verses have obscure meanings, and often deny plain “English.�

In short, there are very few, if any, Judeo-Christians who know the Bible to back up their faith or claims.

[Elijah John]

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You cannot learn its true meaning and its lessons without believing

That may be true for some of the wisdom passages. One learns through experience, and experience may teach the person in question how the passages apply. Learning based on experience often goes deeper than rote learning.

Questions for debate:

1. Does ‘must believe to learn’ apply in general or just to the Bible?

2. Does a Bible scholar who isn’t a believer know less than bible readers who believe?

1) It doesn't apply to either Bible study or to learning in general.
2) Not necessarily. Depends on the individuals in question.

[Eloi]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

The information in the Scriptures is doble: intelectual and spiritual.

Some information in the Scriptures can be understood the same way we study other books ... I've seen non-theistic persons understanding better some biblical doctrines than other religious persons.

But the spiritual aspect of the Bible is a different thing. That cann't be understood just studying the Bible ... Understanding the spiritual aspects in the Scriptures is not possible without being identified with what they say; that understanding is conditioned ... to faith, to mention only one point.

A true Christian does not study the Bible only as an intellectual exercise, such as when someone wants to compete with others to show that he knows more. Biblical knowledge is effective on a personal level if the corresponding spiritual effect is realized in that person's life.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

The information in the Scriptures is doble: intelectual and spiritual.

Some information in the Scriptures can be understood the same way we study other books ... I've seen non-theistic persons understanding better some biblical doctrines than other religious persons.

But the spiritual aspect of the Bible is a different thing. That cann't be understood just studying the Bible ... Understanding the spiritual aspects in the Scriptures is not possible without being identified with what they say; that understanding is conditioned ... to faith, to mention only one point.

A true Christian does not study the Bible only as an intellectual exercise, such as when someone wants to compete with others to show that he knows more. Biblical knowledge is effective on a personal level if the corresponding spiritual effect is realized in that person's life.

An interesting series of claims. Are we to expect verifiable evidence to support these claims to follow, or is this another situation where claims is all you'll provide?


Tcg

[Eloi]

I am talking from my experiences. Are you Bible student, Christian, or anything else that I can help you to understand what I know from my experiences as a Christian?

I was talking to the person who opened the post. I don't need to demonstrate my "claims" to you.

[Tcg]

I am talking from my experiences. Are you Bible student, Christian, or anything else that I can help you to understand what I know from my experiences as a Christian?

I didn't ask about your experiences. I asked if you are going to provide verifiable evidence to support your claims.

I was talking to the person who opened the post. I don't need to demonstrate my "claims" to you.

Apparently, you can't demonstrate evidence to support you claims at all.


Tcg

[Divine Insight]

But the spiritual aspect of the Bible is a different thing. That cann't be understood just studying the Bible ... Understanding the spiritual aspects in the Scriptures is not possible without being identified with what they say; that understanding is conditioned ... to faith, to mention only one point.

A true Christian does not study the Bible only as an intellectual exercise, such as when someone wants to compete with others to show that he knows more. Biblical knowledge is effective on a personal level if the corresponding spiritual effect is realized in that person's life.

The problem with this is that it applies to everything in general.

People who tend to believe what they read or are told are naturally going to attribute their behavior to the source they depend on for their ideas.

The problem with your argument is that it not only applies to all religions (never mind your obsession with the Hebrew Bible), but it also applies to non-religious aspects of life as well.

For example, here's a hypothetical quote from a person who admires their music teacher:
"You should do as my music teacher says. It works for me!"

I'm sure you've heard similar things as well.

Another hypothetical quote from a person who admires their sports coachr:
"You should do as my coach says. It works for me!"

Here's another one:
"You should do as my mathematics teacher says. It works for me!"

When people create a "teacher" their natural instinct is to place the teacher on a pedestal. And that's all you're doing with the Bible. You have chosen to view it as your teacher, and so now you worship it as the best teacher around.

But that's obviously a failed argument since people of all other religions do precisely the same thing with their doctrines and religious teachers.

So your argument is meaningless in terms of supporting your favorite theology. If you were in love with Buddhism instead of Christianity you'd be saying the same things about teachings attributed to the Buddha.

So there's no substance to your argument. All your argument does is reveal your failure to see how this works in many different situations. Many of them having nothing to do with religion at all.