Unfortunately we just had a post where someone asked for proof of God’s nonexistence. When several instances were provided, it was repeatedly not refuted, but denied. A repeated unsubstantiated claim.
1. If science can’t used to disprove deities, what can, assuming they don’t exist?
2. If all the authority our respective theists need is their personal opinions to sabotage threads, what is the purpose of discussion?
So if science can’t disprove God, what can?
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Willum
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Post #12
[Replying to post 8 by Eloi]
No, Conservation Laws make perfect sense without a creator. Something is now, something will be five minutes from now, it was five minutes ago, five million minutes ago.
Only a theist would suspect that if you put five marbles in a box, every time you check it there would be some number other than five.
It just says things don’t change without cause.
Think about a humble hydrogen atom. Unchanged since the beginning of Big Bang, maybe before. It may never be changed ever. That is a simple example of conservation. God isn’t needed now, or for all eternity.
Oh well.
No, Conservation Laws make perfect sense without a creator. Something is now, something will be five minutes from now, it was five minutes ago, five million minutes ago.
Only a theist would suspect that if you put five marbles in a box, every time you check it there would be some number other than five.
It just says things don’t change without cause.
Think about a humble hydrogen atom. Unchanged since the beginning of Big Bang, maybe before. It may never be changed ever. That is a simple example of conservation. God isn’t needed now, or for all eternity.
Oh well.
Last edited by Willum on Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zzyzx
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Post #13
.
Who is the ‘legislator’?
‘The Law of Gravity’ can be cited as one ‘Law of Nature’.
Who is the ‘legislator’?
.
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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Zzyzx
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Post #15
.
BUT I do ask that you answer the question posed in post #13
Who is the ‘legislator’?
I, for one, do not ask you to believe anything.Eloi wrote: Nobody will make me believe that the Laws in the Universe went out from a chaos. That's not rational at all.
BUT I do ask that you answer the question posed in post #13
Who is the ‘legislator’?
.
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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Eloi
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Post #16
As I said: nobody will make me believe, convince me, or whatever you want to call it, that Laws in the Universe went out from a chaos. That is what non-theistics believe. That is not rational.
Behind the Laws of the Universe there is a Legislator, the One who created the Universe. He created it with Laws, so we can study those laws and see how the Universe was created and why it works the way it does. That's why we can know when the sun will rise, a star will appear in a place, etc. That is because we know that the Universe works that way. No one can change the Laws in the Universe: everything is and will be the same way it was created.
The Legislator in the whole Universe is the Creator.
Behind the Laws of the Universe there is a Legislator, the One who created the Universe. He created it with Laws, so we can study those laws and see how the Universe was created and why it works the way it does. That's why we can know when the sun will rise, a star will appear in a place, etc. That is because we know that the Universe works that way. No one can change the Laws in the Universe: everything is and will be the same way it was created.
The Legislator in the whole Universe is the Creator.
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Willum
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Post #17
[Replying to post 14 by Eloi]
I find nothing counter intuitive or irrational about it.
Science makes sense.
What is different is that I was do not still believe in a fairy tale deity.
[Replying to post 16 by Eloi]
But a second century comic book can convince you of irrational things like talking snakes, impossible 'creation' timelines, magic fruit, impossible global floods and so on.
So if you are wrong, as is possible, if you are an imperfect human, there is nothing that can convince you of it?
You have been measured.
I find nothing counter intuitive or irrational about it.
Science makes sense.
What is different is that I was do not still believe in a fairy tale deity.
[Replying to post 16 by Eloi]
But a second century comic book can convince you of irrational things like talking snakes, impossible 'creation' timelines, magic fruit, impossible global floods and so on.
So if you are wrong, as is possible, if you are an imperfect human, there is nothing that can convince you of it?
You have been measured.
Last edited by Willum on Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Zzyzx
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Post #18
.
HOW, exactly, do you know this?
HOW did you learn so much about the 'Creator'?
That is a claim of knowledge -- knowing that a 'Creator' made the universe and established its 'laws'.Eloi wrote: The Legislator in the whole Universe is the Creator.
HOW, exactly, do you know this?
HOW did you learn so much about the 'Creator'?
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Re: So if science can’t disprove God, what can?
Post #19[Replying to post 9 by Divine Insight]
I agree there, I like to call upon the OT to disprove the NT.
I like pointing out that Jesus fails to even qualify as a Jew, having been born a bastard in the eyes of the Jews, and never accepted as God.
By Deuteronomy, a bastard is not allowed into the congregation of God. Ifhe could not be accepted under such a fundamental of Judaism, and/or a huge body is legitimate in their rejection of him he certainly could be no messiah.
Of course then there is Jesus telling Judaists to venerate the God Caesar, an offense they should clamor for his death for.
And insisting they use currency that proclaims the divinity of another god on it - proclaiming the divinity of Caesar, something that would make the user "unclean." Another blasphemy that would cause a true religious Jew to clamor for his death because of...
And son of a gun, they did!
I agree there, I like to call upon the OT to disprove the NT.
I like pointing out that Jesus fails to even qualify as a Jew, having been born a bastard in the eyes of the Jews, and never accepted as God.
By Deuteronomy, a bastard is not allowed into the congregation of God. Ifhe could not be accepted under such a fundamental of Judaism, and/or a huge body is legitimate in their rejection of him he certainly could be no messiah.
Of course then there is Jesus telling Judaists to venerate the God Caesar, an offense they should clamor for his death for.
And insisting they use currency that proclaims the divinity of another god on it - proclaiming the divinity of Caesar, something that would make the user "unclean." Another blasphemy that would cause a true religious Jew to clamor for his death because of...
And son of a gun, they did!
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Divine Insight
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Post #20
That's not what science claims either. So apparently you know nothing of science.Eloi wrote: As I said: nobody will make me believe, convince me, or whatever you want to call it, that Laws in the Universe went out from a chaos. That is what non-theistics believe. That is not rational.
This is at least a second time that you've made a claim about what non-theists supposedly believe.
I'm a non-theist and I have absolutely no reason to think that the universe began from chaos. So contrary to your false witness against me, I do not believe what you claim that I believe.
All you've done here is create a strawman and then proclaim that non-theists believe in your strawman.
[center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]
