bjs wrote:You changed the passage to say something else...
No I did not. I read the story in Acts 1:18 and made an honest mistake misunderstanding exactly what headlong means. In my reply to you in Post 18 I included a detailed correction of my error.
Why are you so quick to accuse me of deliberately twisting a story but cannot entertain the probability that Matthew and/or Luke did the same?
...and then built one of your two main arguments around the change that you made.
I'm not sure what argument you are referring to, but the exact position of the body of the falling Judas--whether headfirst or headlong--makes no significant difference to my critique of the apologetic that the story of the death of Judas in Matthew can be sensibly reconciled with the story in Acts. Whether falling headfirst or headlong, it is unlikely that such would be the outcome of a hanging. When people are hanged they almost always fall feet first.
So bjs,
that's one of the main parts of my argument. Please address that argument rather than something you come up with that I supposedly said.
Acts does not say that. It say his “body burst open,� not that he actively disemboweled himself or that disembowelment was the cause of death.
Well, if I read that Judas's bowels gushed out and nothing else is said about what happened to him, then sensibly I will conclude that that was the cause of death. Are you seriously saying that after reading that story you were left wondering what was the cause of Judas's death?
Once the rope goes taunt, the body is no longer falling. The fall comes before that.
I'm critiquing the argument made by apologists that the rope Judas used to hang himself broke, and he then fell to his death. Did you read what I said in the OP?
Also, why do you think it more likely that he stepped off of his perch? I’m not saying that is impossible, but I don’t see it as any more or less likely then him falling forward.
Judas stepping off his perch to hang himself seems the natural and most effective thing to do. I see no reason for him to fall forward. Are you saying he fell forward to try to reconcile his hanging with what Luke said in Acts?
I said nothing about the rope breaking.
Again, that's the apologetic I have been critiquing since the OP.
I think we must assume that anyone who hangs himself something that he could step off of that had a place above where a rope could be tied. Without building gallows, how else does a person hang himself?
If Judas did hang himself, then I'd say that the most likely scenario is that Judas tied a rope to a tree limb while he stood on something like a chair. After putting the noose around his neck, he stepped off the chair. The weight of his body supported by his neck in the noose forced his body into a vertical position although he probably flailed for a minute or so until he died.
Leaning forward does not strike me as particularly difficult.
It's unlikely.
And I said nothing about an impact with the ground below.
The apologetic I'm critiquing implies that Judas's body struck the ground causing his insides to burst out.
The idea that a body that was hanging out in a field would not be found for a while is no only possible, but likely.
Why would that be likely? I see no reason why Judas's body could not have been found right away and entombed. If so, then your "exploding corpse" theory doesn't work, and the story in Acts is wrong.
Then perhaps we have an area of agreement. I cannot prove the scenario I suggested took place, nor do I see any reason to think that it did not take place.
I've posted many reasons why what you're arguing is unlikely to be true.
Now that we've scrutinized your argument, please address my argument which is that the very different stories of the death of Judas in Matthew and in Acts result from one of them making up his story. In what way am I likely to be wrong?
