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Zzyzx
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:14 pm  Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity Reply with quote

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Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity

Since they were once Believers (perhaps very devout), they have insider knowledge of dogma, doctrine, practices, rituals, and literature. No amount of ‘you weren’t really Christian’ can discredit what they experienced and what they say. ‘Your cult wasn’t REAL Christianity (like mine is)’ rings exceedingly hollow and self-serving.

Apostates came to realize (often after decades) that they were duped and may be angry about the time and devotion that they wasted chasing an illusion. Some may offer assistance and/or encouragement for others to question what they are told to believe – and find a way out.

Several very capable Non-Theist debaters here are prime examples of escaped Christians. Others post at www.ExChristian.net and www.ClergyProject.org. Others of us never drank the Kool-Aid but have experience dealing with Christians who attempt to push their beliefs onto others with social pressure, emotional appeals, threats, promises, and/or legislation.
Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 11: Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:31 am
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I was a devout Christian as a child, having been force fed the faith with my mother's milk. Shocked It was a huge relief when I lost it, when I was a teenager. I asked the pastor of the Pentecostal church we attended lots of questions, which he either couldn't answer, or made ridiculous statements. For example, when I asked him about dinosaurs being much older than his young earth creationist view, he told me god put them there as a test of faith! I have read the Bible many times over the years and each time I read it, my non belief is confirmed.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 12: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:03 am
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Re: Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity

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Zzyzx wrote:

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Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity

Since they were once Believers (perhaps very devout), they have insider knowledge of dogma, doctrine, practices, rituals, and literature. No amount of ‘you weren’t really Christian’ can discredit what they experienced and what they say. ‘Your cult wasn’t REAL Christianity (like mine is)’ rings exceedingly hollow and self-serving.

Apostates came to realize (often after decades) that they were duped and may be angry about the time and devotion that they wasted chasing an illusion. Some may offer assistance and/or encouragement for others to question what they are told to believe – and find a way out.

Several very capable Non-Theist debaters here are prime examples of escaped Christians. Others post at www.ExChristian.net and www.ClergyProject.org. Others of us never drank the Kool-Aid but have experience dealing with Christians who attempt to push their beliefs onto others with social pressure, emotional appeals, threats, promises, and/or legislation.



Well, I think this would depend on the answer to certain questions?

1. First, was this individual raised in the Church, and how long after they became of age, did they continue to believe the things they were taught?

2. Did this person convert as an adult, and how long were they a Christian before coming to reject?

3. What caused them to become convinced, and embrace Christianity as being true?

4. Do they now claim they really did not engage the mind, or did not use it properly when making to decision to become, and, or remain to be a Christian?

5. Do they now claim there would be no good reasons to believe Christianity to be true?

You see, it would be these, and other questions which may give us some sort of idea, what sort of person we are dealing with? In other words, if they say, "I did not use the mind, or did not use the mind properly when making such a major life decision", and they go on to say now, "there would be no good reasons to believe Christianity to be true", then I think we have just demonstrated one who will make major life decisions, without thinking very critically through what they embrace to be true, and we can be sure of this, since they now claim to have embraced something as true, which there would be no good reasons to believe.

The point being, simply because one has the ability to change the mind, does not in any way demonstrate that one has the ability to change the way in which they think, and therefore, since they are admitting to an "easy in" as far as Christianity is concerned, what is it that would convince us, that it was not just as an "easy out" for them, no matter how hard they claim that it was, since they have already admitted to be the type of person who would make such a major life decision to become, and or, remain to be a Christian, without thinking through such a major decision?

I really do not see how this sort of person, could possibly be a, "powerful voice against Christianity" when they claim to embrace something with all their heart, mind, (oops, well maybe not the mind) soul, body, and money for years, that they now claim there would be no good reasons to believe? I would rather think that most unbelievers would rather such a one, stay out of the conversation?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 13: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:15 am
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Hmmmm, ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity but ex-atheists are NOT powerful voices pro-Christianity? A list can be provided by a Wiki cut and past...

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 14: Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:55 am
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Re: Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity

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Realworldjack wrote:

Well, I think this would depend on the answer to certain questions?

1. First, was this individual raised in the Church, and how long after they became of age, did they continue to believe the things they were taught?

2. Did this person convert as an adult, and how long were they a Christian before coming to reject?

3. What caused them to become convinced, and embrace Christianity as being true?

4. Do they now claim they really did not engage the mind, or did not use it properly when making to decision to become, and, or remain to be a Christian?

5. Do they now claim there would be no good reasons to believe Christianity to be true?

That’s quite an impressive interrogation Jack.

Do you suppose that readers (the people being addressed) go through such a process when evaluating what is said by such Ex-Christians as OnceConvinced? I do not recall anyone asking him such questions.

I suggest, instead, that readers evaluate his credibility based on what he writes – and that many find him MUCH more credible than those attempting to promote or defend Christianity (or denigrate apostates).

Compare OC’s posts to those of the more vocal Apologists. Which are more likely to be powerful influence upon readers considering their own position regards Christianity?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 15: Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:20 pm
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ttruscott wrote:

Hmmmm, ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity but ex-atheists are NOT powerful voices pro-Christianity? A list can be provided by a Wiki cut and past...

Take a gander at the Former Christian user-group – six pages – 264 members (vs. Christian user-group with 462 members) https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/groupcp.php?g=1486

Consider also “In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace” by Pew Research
https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-...

Whose message is getting across to the public, those who claim that long-dead bodies come back to life (or 'you existed before you were born') – or those who counsel against believing such tales?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 16: Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:29 pm
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Re: Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity

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[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

Ex-Christians are not powerful voices against Christianity.

Here's why:
1. They will not find more ethical and moral character with "Atheists" or non-believers.
2. They fail to separate the crooked hypocrites from the good, religious people.
3. Life on Earth is lived with God's grace as much as Heaven is entered by God's grace as well in addition to the fact that the 10 Commandments have been respected throughout.
4. They may require Best practice psychiatry in suffering from traumas and that this may be the real cause in departing from Christianity.

Welcome back, Ex-Christians! The Bible is yours to keep as with all others!

Study Very Happy Cool

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 17: Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:38 pm
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Re: Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity

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[Replying to post 16 by Aetixintro]

Thank you for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about

Come back to the Bible -- and believe that long-dead bodies reanimate, that virgins give birth, that the Earth was flooded 'to the tops of mountains', that people can live inside fish, that donkeys and snakes converse in human language, and that you can live happily ever after (after you die, that is) if you BELIEVE.

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 18: Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:03 pm
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Re: Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity

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Aetixintro wrote:


The Bible is yours to keep as with all others!



Yes, it is, and I've kept mine. It was one of the greatest tools that helped me leave Christianity and is steady encouragement that I was right to do so.


Tcg

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 19: Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:41 am
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Re: Ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity

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Zzyzx wrote:

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Realworldjack wrote:

Well, I think this would depend on the answer to certain questions?

1. First, was this individual raised in the Church, and how long after they became of age, did they continue to believe the things they were taught?

2. Did this person convert as an adult, and how long were they a Christian before coming to reject?

3. What caused them to become convinced, and embrace Christianity as being true?

4. Do they now claim they really did not engage the mind, or did not use it properly when making to decision to become, and, or remain to be a Christian?

5. Do they now claim there would be no good reasons to believe Christianity to be true?

That’s quite an impressive interrogation Jack.

Do you suppose that readers (the people being addressed) go through such a process when evaluating what is said by such Ex-Christians as OnceConvinced? I do not recall anyone asking him such questions.

I suggest, instead, that readers evaluate his credibility based on what he writes – and that many find him MUCH more credible than those attempting to promote or defend Christianity (or denigrate apostates).

Compare OC’s posts to those of the more vocal Apologists. Which are more likely to be powerful influence upon readers considering their own position regards Christianity?





Quote:
Do you suppose that readers (the people being addressed) go through such a process when evaluating what is said by such Ex-Christians as OnceConvinced? I do not recall anyone asking him such questions.


OH? I'm sorry? I thought we were talking about folks who really think, and are concerned about what the truth may actually be? But I guess you are simply talking about those who are not really concerned about what the truth may be, and are only concerned with, whose arguments, SEEMS more convincing? My bad!

I will point out that I have not had to many conversations with "OC" but I do believe I did in fact get into some of these things with him, when I have had the opportunity. But then, I am not really all that concerned with simply winning arguments, but am rather more concerned as to what the truth may be.

But, what I would like you to know is, I am not at all shocked by the fact that there are many, ex-Christians. I was not shocked when I came to the site to find a great deal of the unbelievers here were once Christians. In fact, I expected just that.

I also expect this to continue to happen on a large scale, and I believe there to be many factors involved. One of those factors is the fact that there are many Churches out there, who are not really concerned about the truth, and are rather more concerned about winning converts. With this being the case, these Churches will do whatever they can to win them, and there will always be folks who will get swept away with the emotions, and leave the mind behind. Therefore, when, and if these folks begin to use the mind, it will not take a whole lot to talk them out of Christianity. In other words, since it did not take a whole lot of thinking to get them to embrace Christianity, then it will not take a whole lot of thinking to talk them out. This is what I call, "easy in, easy out".

Quote:
I suggest, instead, that readers evaluate his credibility based on what he writes – and that many find him MUCH more credible than those attempting to promote or defend Christianity (or denigrate apostates).


Which would not have a thing to do with, what the truth may be. But hey, if that is what you are into, the please go right ahead.

Quote:
Compare OC’s posts to those of the more vocal Apologists. Which are more likely to be powerful influence upon readers considering their own position regards Christianity?


As I have been saying, there seem to be some who are more concerned with how an argument is being perceived, than they seem to be, about what the actual truth may be?

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Post BBCode URL - Right click and save to clipboard to use later in post Post 20: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:26 pm
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ttruscott wrote:

Hmmmm, ex-Christians are powerful voices against Christianity but ex-atheists are NOT powerful voices pro-Christianity?

Correct. As atheism has no dogma, doctrine, practices or rituals that an ex-atheist can use to turn the table.

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