Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

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Wootah
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Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

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Post by Wootah »

18 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

Translation: Abraham looked up and saw God as three men and he bowed down.

Surely Christians can use this as evidence for the trinity?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #31

Post by JehovahsWitness »

PinSeeker wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
In verse 3, why does he not say "My Lords..." (plural) but instead, "My Lord..." (singular)?

Could it not be because he is addressing one of the three in particular?
If one contorts Genesis 18 into something other than what it is, yes.
And which words in the verse indicate he could not be addressing one of the three? And necessitate a "contortion" in order to arrive at the conclusion that he was?
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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #32

Post by PinSeeker »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
In verse 3, why does he not say "My Lords..." (plural) but instead, "My Lord..." (singular)?
Could it not be because he is addressing one of the three in particular?
At the risk of sounding short and/or overly harsh -- which is surely not my intent -- no.
JehovahsWitness wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:.... [Abraham] reverts back to referring to the three as one ("that you may go on, since you have visited your servant"...
ditto
I did, but am happy do so again for you:

"Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth, and said, “My Lord, if now I have found favor in Your sight, please do not pass Your servant by. Please let a little water be brought and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree; and I will bring a piece of bread, that you may refresh yourselves; after that you may go on, since you have visited your servant.�

All of this illustrates all my points, but particularly verse 5, where Abraham says, "I will bring you" (singular) "...a piece of bread, that you" (singular) "...may refresh yourselves;" (plural) "...that you" (reverting back to singular) "...may go on, since you" (singular) "...have visited your" (singular) "...servant." Abraham is referring to all three distinct persons collectively as one.

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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #33

Post by JehovahsWitness »

PinSeeker wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
In verse 3, why does he not say "My Lords..." (plural) but instead, "My Lord..." (singular)?
Could it not be because he is addressing one of the three in particular?
At the risk of sounding short and/or overly harsh -- which is surely not my intent -- no.
Do you feel inclined to support your conclusion with evidence? Ie what in the verse renders it impossible that Abraham was addressing one of the three in particular (in verse 3)
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Romans 14:8

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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #34

Post by PinSeeker »

JehovahsWitness wrote: And which words in the verse indicate he could not be addressing one of the three? And necessitate a "contortion" in order to arrive at the conclusion that he was?
I think it necessary for anyone reading it without a preconceived agenda that when Abraham says, "Lord," he is addressing all three, especially since the text does not explicitly say that he was addressing only one of the three.

Too, the contortion may not be deliberate, but it is what it is. As I implied, if one is honest with himself, he must at least ask why there were three persons presenting themselves to Abraham rather than just one.

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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #35

Post by PinSeeker »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
In verse 3, why does he not say "My Lords..." (plural) but instead, "My Lord..." (singular)?
Could it not be because he is addressing one of the three in particular?
At the risk of sounding short and/or overly harsh -- which is surely not my intent -- no.
Do you feel inclined to support your conclusion with evidence? Ie what in the verse renders it impossible that Abraham was addressing one of the three in particular.
I did; see above. I realize I'm probably not going to change your mind, JW. Neither will you change mine.

Grace and peace to you in the name of Christ Jesus.

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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #36

Post by JehovahsWitness »

PinSeeker wrote:
All of this illustrates all my points, but particularly verse 5, where Abraham says, "I will bring you" (singular) "...a piece of bread, that you" (singular) "...may refresh yourselves;" (plural) "...that you" (reverting back to singular) "...may go on, since you" (singular) "...have visited your" (singular) "...servant." Abraham is referring to all three distinct persons collectively as one.
Are you aware that in verse five ALL the the YOU /YOURs of Abraham addressing the three are plural NOT singular in Hebrew?
PinSeeker wrote:
Abraham is referring to all three distinct persons collectively as one.
No he is not.



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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:05 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Romans 14:8

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Post #37

Post by 2timothy316 »

ttruscott wrote: The flim flam of exegesis is that for anyone to get the meaning of a verse from the verse without any input from their mindset and unfiltered by existing ideas is on the order of Paul's conversion as a bright light and hearing GOD's voice. Every interpretation of a verse is eisegesis, the fitting of the verse into previously accepted definitions.
While people are indeed using eisegesis to interpret the account in the OP, the statement that every interpretation of a verse is eisegesis is incorrect. I use exegesis for every scripture and have had no problems avoiding or uprooting my own input. How you do that is take into account the whole Bible. Letting the Bible add it's own input from other scriptures. The Bible explains the Bible. Let the Bible explain the verse. Indeed let God explain Himself.

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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #38

Post by PinSeeker »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
All of this illustrates all my points, but particularly verse 5, where Abraham says, "I will bring you" (singular) "...a piece of bread, that you" (singular) "...may refresh yourselves;" (plural) "...that you" (reverting back to singular) "...may go on, since you" (singular) "...have visited your" (singular) "...servant." Abraham is referring to all three distinct persons collectively as one.
Are you aware that in verse five ALL the the YOU /YOURs of Abraham addressing the three are plural NOT singular in Hebrew?
Yes. But the plural is acknowledging of the singular entity of the three. Like I said, I don't expect you change your opinion.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #39

Post by PinSeeker »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
PinSeeker wrote:
Abraham is referring to all three distinct persons collectively as one.
No he is not.
Yes, he is.

Reminds me of the old Lite Beer from Miller commercials: "Tastes great!" "Less filling!" "Tastes great!" "Less filling!" :D

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

Post #40

Post by JehovahsWitness »

GENESIS CHAPTER 18 VERSE 3: HOW MANY PEOPLE WAS ABRAHAM TALKING TO?


Abraham saw three "men" but running up to them did he address one jn particular or all three as a group?
"Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth, and said, “My Lord, if now I have found favor in Your sight, please do not pass Your servant by�
PinSeeker wrote:
I think it necessary for anyone reading it without a preconceived agenda that when Abraham says, "Lord," he is addressing all three.
... but Lord is singular, so why would one presume he was not addressing a singular individual within the group? Otherwise he would say LORDS. In verse 3 all the pronouns of Abrahams address are singular! The LORD appeared to Abraham and Abraham addresses him in the singular. There is nothing to suggest plurality. Surely the first reflex when you see a singular pronoun is to assume it is referring to a singular individual, that's how language works!




JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:15 pm, edited 10 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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