1 Corinthians 8 - Shema Jesus

[Wootah]

1 Corinthians 8 English Standard Version (ESV)
Food Offered to Idols
1 Now concerning[a] food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.� This “knowledge� puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.

4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,� and that “there is no God but one.� 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods� and many “lords�— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Here Paul references the Shema in verse 4. Paul knows, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one".

Then Paul says this about God in verse 6:

God is the Father for whom we exist and the Lord Jesus Christ through whom we exist.

Anyone not clearly able to see that Paul believes the Shema and includes the Father and Jesus in the concept of God?

https://biblehub.com/psb/1_corinthians/8.htm

https://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm

[JehovahsWitness]

1 CORINTHIANS 8:2
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Are you suggesting there is something here that suggests the Lord Jesus is equal un power, authority and position to Almighty God YHWH The Father?

It seems to me that by stating there is one God and placing Jesus not as that God but listing him as a LORD, Paul he is doing the direct opposite of affirming Jesus to be God in this verse.

Surely this would have been the occassion for Paul to say: "There is ONE GOD, The Father and Jesus" Instead he only refers to the Father under the umbrella of GOD, shifting Jesus outside to be categorized as "Lord".


JW

[Wootah]

Surely this would have been the occassion for Paul to say: "There is ONE GOD, The Father and Jesus" Instead he only refers to the Father under the umbrella of GOD, shifting Jesus outside to be categorized as "Lord".
JW

Just read it again. This is my argument.

Premises
* Paul knows the Shema, loves the Shema and cares about the Shema.
* So there is no chance (especially for bible believers) that when Paul cites the Shema in line 4 and decides to talk about it he will get it wrong.

I remind you of the Shema:
KJV - Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord
ESV - “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one

There are two parts to this: YHWH is GOD and YHWH is one.

Now this means that what follows concords in Paul's mind with the SHema.

5 and 6: For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods� and many “lords�— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

5 - seems to be attacking idolatroy and agrees with the idea God is one.

6 - when talking about the oneness of God mentions the Father and the Son and their different roles within God and calls Jesus Lord.

It's either out and out blasphemy as Judaism would attest by a man Jesus being tied to the shema by Paul or Paul is correctly understanding the shema and Jesus is God.

[brianbbs67]

1 Corinthians 8 English Standard Version (ESV)
Food Offered to Idols
1 Now concerning[a] food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.� This “knowledge� puffs up, but love builds up. 2 If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.

4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,� and that “there is no God but one.� 5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods� and many “lords�— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Here Paul references the Shema in verse 4. Paul knows, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one".

Then Paul says this about God in verse 6:

God is the Father for whom we exist and the Lord Jesus Christ through whom we exist.

Anyone not clearly able to see that Paul believes the Shema and includes the Father and Jesus in the concept of God?

https://biblehub.com/psb/1_corinthians/8.htm

https://biblehub.com/greek/2962.htm

Paul is speaking about dietary law here. Remember the converts were ordered not to eat meat sacrificed to idols in Acts. He is reminding them as Gentile converts there is much they don't know. "as Moses is taught every Sabbath in every city" They are at the beginning of their faith. Noahide law was the method to convert. Not the end of it.

He also establishes a difference between christ and God. There is one God and one lord. Its a kingdom, there is hierarchy.

Here's the kicker: Yeshua made no converts to christianity. It did not exist then. He called Israel to repentance and a return to pure Torah without the manmade laws and traditions. The sect that came to be was called The Way. Ebionites and Bereans followed this Way.

[Wootah]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

How does that relate to the thread?

[JehovahsWitness]

6 - when talking about the oneness of God mentions the Father and the Son ....

That's the whole point, he does nothjng of the kind. When talking about the oneness of God He mentions the Father alone. When speaking about the Lord He mentions Jesus. He does not categorize Jesus as God.

He does not say "There is one God, Father and Son" .... if he did we'd have no issue. If he had called Jesus God we would have no issue. Unfortunately for Trinitarians, Paul calls only the Father GOD and leaves Jesus to be categorized as Lord.

1 Corinthians 8 (ESV)

....there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ...

There is no getting around it, Paul mentions two individuals in this verse: one he calls God and the other he calls Lord. You may argue that Paul was calling Jesus God in his head, (if it be your pleasure) but he most certainly didnt record so in writing.




JW

[polonius]

The first verse encapsulates the monotheistic essence of Judaism: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one" (Hebrew: )שְ�מַע יִשְׂרָ�ֵל יְהוָה �ֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה �ֶחָֽד

JW says:
(quote) Here Paul references the Shema in verse 4. Paul knows, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one".

Then Paul says this about God in verse 6:

God is the Father for whom we exist and the Lord Jesus Christ through whom we exist.

Anyone not clearly able to see that Paul believes the Shema and includes the Father and Jesus in the concept of God? (/quote)

RESPONSE: Not at all. Paul does not claim that Jesus is eternal or God. You are trying to read something that isn’t there.

"In John's Revelation, Jesus gives this testimony of his own creation by calling himself "the beginning of the creation of God" (Rev.3: 14). Not only is he the beginning, Christ is also the ending. In his own words, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev. 22:13). In other words, the first and the last thing which the Father created was the Son. Everything else was created by the Son

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

How does that relate to the thread?

It shows that there is no equality with God. And that you miss what the writing was saying.

[Wootah]

[Replying to brianbbs67]

Ok I would like to reply so pleaae don't think me rude but I don't see a rebuttal.

[Wootah]

6 - when talking about the oneness of God mentions the Father and the Son ....

That's the whole point, he does nothjng of the kind. When talking about the oneness of God He mentions the Father alone. When speaking about the Lord He mentions Jesus. He does not categorize Jesus as God.

He does not say "There is one God, Father and Son" .... if he did we'd have no issue. If he had called Jesus God we would have no issue. Unfortunately for Trinitarians, Paul calls only the Father GOD and leaves Jesus to be categorized as Lord.

1 Corinthians 8 (ESV)

....there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ...

There is no getting around it, Paul mentions two individuals in this verse: one he calls God and the other he calls Lord. You may argue that Paul was calling Jesus God in his head, (if it be your pleasure) but he most certainly didnt record so in writing.

JW

So you feel that Paul in verse 6, after mentioning the shema, fails to only talk about God?

He couldn't even write one sentence on God after mentioning the Shema without mentioning not God?

It's far more natural to believe Paul was believing he was not violating the Shema when he speaks of Jesus and the Father as God.

How many other verses do JW have to interpret unnaturally? The first one that comes to mind is doubting Thomas, "My Lord and my God."

https://biblehub.com/text/john/20-28.htm

Ill ask in a new thread.