Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Two hot topics for the price of one

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Elijah John
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Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #1

Post by Elijah John »

Last night during the State of the Union address Nancy Pelosi and many Democrats sat on their hands when President Trump called for respect for the police and law enforcement including I.C.E.

Is this a winning issue for Democrats? Do the majority of Americans disrespect the police and want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency?

I guess time (and the upcoming election) will tell, but are the Democrats out of touch with the average American?

Or by sitting on their hands on many topics during the address, have the Democrats given the RNC plenty of footage to use against them in campaign ads in the next election?
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #2

Post by Difflugia »

Elijah John wrote:I guess time (and the upcoming election) will tell, but are the Democrats out of touch with the average American?
It depends on how many Americans recognize the issue as the dog whistle that it appears to me to be. I've yet to encounter Democratic politicians that disrespect the police qua police. The issue is about abuse of police power.

When President Trump is making a statement about "respect" for the police, the Democratic politicians recognize it as a tacit call to right-wing elements to ignore (or perhaps even facilitate) racist and authoritarian abuses by law enforcement agencies. I agree with them in thinking that's what the president is saying. I would be upset if Democratic politicians behaved as though they didn't recognize that.

The question is if the "average Americans" that think (perhaps correctly; who knows? :D) that the president is simply calling for us all to respect honest and fair police work are potential Democratic voters that would swing Republican based on the straw man argument that Democrats don't support honest law enforcement efforts. My suspicion is that most "average Americans" that would claim this actually know that the president is voicing support for authoritarian abuses, but agree with him anyway.

If the "average American" doesn't recognize a call to ignore or facilitate abuse of police power, then we're in the kind of trouble that can't be fixed by clapping for coded statements by the president. If the "average American" actually echoes that call, then we're in worse trouble.

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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #3

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]

I don't know if it is a winning issue but it is a hyper partisan issue, it's just the latest in #BlackLivesMatter vs #BlueLivesMatter divide in the US. Are you pro-institutional racism, or are you pro-gangstas terrorising law abiding citizens? Take a side.

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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #4

Post by Clownboat »

Elijah John wrote: Last night during the State of the Union address Nancy Pelosi and many Democrats sat on their hands when President Trump called for respect for the police and law enforcement including I.C.E.

Is this a winning issue for Democrats? Do the majority of Americans disrespect the police and want to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency?

I guess time (and the upcoming election) will tell, but are the Democrats out of touch with the average American?

Or by sitting on their hands on many topics during the address, have the Democrats given the RNC plenty of footage to use against them in campaign ads in the next election?
(I could only guess at the Democratic reasoning...)
Policing in America used to be a honorable job. (Still is considered for many/most I would assume, but that is declining).
This trend seems to be changing with all the person footage available out there.
Then we have things like stops to check that people have their licenses on them (5th amendment).
Ghost cars for issuing speeding tickets. (Let's be honest, if the goal is to get people to slow down, a marked car will do that. Ghost cars would seem to be revenue generators).
Now the words "stop resisting" are signs that the men/woman policing are abusing their authority and another human and not necessarily that the accused is resisting.

Now days I hear them called road pirates, blue Isis and being compared to sovereign citizens.
Self-described "sovereign citizens" see themselves as answerable only to their particular interpretation of the common law and as not subject to any government statutes or proceedings.
(For example, see cases of tickets being issued for not wearing a seat belt while the person policing neither had it on when arriving or leaving the scene where he issued the ticket).

We need a police force, but sadly the one we have is not the honorable force it once was considered. Are the Dems just ahead of the game?
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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #5

Post by Difflugia »

Bust Nak wrote:I don't know if it is a winning issue but it is a hyper partisan issue, it's just the latest in #BlackLivesMatter vs #BlueLivesMatter divide in the US. Are you pro-institutional racism, or are you pro-gangstas terrorising law abiding citizens? Take a side.
I'm pro-no straw man. Or is that anti-straw man? Either way.

"Blue Lives Matter" is a response to a straw man version of "Black Lives Matter." "Black Lives Matter" doesn't imply (and was never intended to imply) that the lives of police officers don't matter, or even matter less than anyone else's. "Black Lives Matter" asserts that black people are being killed because we don't hold police to an acceptable standard of accountability. Even if their premise is mistaken and law enforcement is already being held to an acceptable standard, "Blue Lives Matter" simply comes across as thinly (very thinly) disguised racism. Police officers are already given the means and latitude to kill other people in circumstances that civilians aren't because we as a society already think that blue lives matter. Claiming that it's disrespectful to expect more oversight over the privilege of homicide seems a little bit petty at best.

Nobody's asking for "gangstas" (which I hope you didn't mean in a racist way) to have carte blanche to commit crimes and terrorize the public. What is being asked is that law enforcement take steps to reduce the number of officer-involved homicides (which are disproportionately of black people). In fact, I would think that the implication that it's somehow a zero-sum game is at least a little disrespectful to law-enforcement personnel.

So, I'll see your own straw man and raise you one of my own:

Are you pro-accountability for police, or are you pro-state-sanctioned murder under color of law? Take a side.

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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #6

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 5 by Difflugia]

It's all covered under the phrase "all lives matter". Black lives are included under all lives. No one ever said that black lives don't matter.

And to say, (as some do on the Left) that to use the phrase "all lives matter" is racist, is ridiculous at best.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #7

Post by Elijah John »

[Replying to post 2 by Difflugia]

"Dog whistle", i.e. paranoia, or seeing hatred where none is intended. Not giving the benefit of the doubt to people who disagree with the far Left, and attributing to them all kinds of evil motives.

The term itself is right out of the extremist Left lexicon. Along with terms like "trigger warnings" etc.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

Elijah John
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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #8

Post by Elijah John »

Clownboat wrote:
(I could only guess at the Democratic reasoning...)
Policing in America used to be a honorable job. (Still is considered for many/most I would assume, but that is declining).
This trend seems to be changing with all the person footage available out there.
Then we have things like stops to check that people have their licenses on them (5th amendment).
Ghost cars for issuing speeding tickets. (Let's be honest, if the goal is to get people to slow down, a marked car will do that. Ghost cars would seem to be revenue generators).
Now the words "stop resisting" are signs that the men/woman policing are abusing their authority and another human and not necessarily that the accused is resisting.

Now days I hear them called road pirates, blue Isis and being compared to sovereign citizens.
Self-described "sovereign citizens" see themselves as answerable only to their particular interpretation of the common law and as not subject to any government statutes or proceedings.
(For example, see cases of tickets being issued for not wearing a seat belt while the person policing neither had it on when arriving or leaving the scene where he issued the ticket).

We need a police force, but sadly the one we have is not the honorable force it once was considered. Are the Dems just ahead of the game?
"Sovereign citizens"? Another phrase from the Left Wing lexicon for those who think they are above the law.

What you describe is anarchy. Dems ahead of their game? Let them run on anarchy in the name of "social justice" and see how far they get. Let the American people decide if Democrats are on the cutting edge, or without a clue. Let the American people decide if the Left is completely out of touch.

"Ghost cars" as you say, have been around for decades. We called them "unmarked cars". Years ago I got stopped for speeding by an unmarked car. Was that "racist"? (I am white and the cop was white)

Cops have buckets of water tossed at them in NYC. Police have been murdered in Texas by a black man, ironically while trying to ensure safety for BLM protesters.

Yes, the Police as a whole are still honorable and put their lives on the line every day. Yes, blue lives do matter.

I remember the last election cycle Bernie Sanders was bullied for using the phrase "all lives matter". And VP Biden was bullied for calling VP Mike Pence "a decent man". Both intimidated by the thought police on the Left, both bullied into retractions. Are we OK with that? The tyranny of the Left.
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #9

Post by Bust Nak »

[Replying to post 5 by Difflugia]

Oh, I have taken a side alright: I am pro-accountability for police. I want them to be held to a higher standard to the average citizen, not lower standard because they have a difficult job. I want them punished for their "split-second life or death" decision, where in hindsight turned out to be the wrong one. I want them to have rules of engagement that's closer to the military peace keeping forces on foreign ground instead of the "I feared for my life" standard they have now. I want every recording equipment failure to count as if the worse case abuse of power was recorded in the court of law.

If I get labelled as pro-crime for wanting to make the police's life more difficult, then so be it. It should be a hugely difficult job.

Bravo to the Democrats sitting on their hands when Trump called for respect for the police. Winning issue, maybe not, but it's resonating with the target audience.

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Re: Go ahead Dems, run on that...

Post #10

Post by Difflugia »

Elijah John wrote:And to say, (as some do on the Left) that to use the phrase "all lives matter" is racist, is ridiculous at best.
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