What does one call...?

Argue for and against Christianity

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Willum
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What does one call...?

Post #1

Post by Willum »

Bear with me on this one, there will be a reveal where this is attached to religion.

What do you call someone who still defends actions when they have been shown to be morally wrong?
Who will not change their belief despite the irrationality of it?
That can be shown evidence and not change their stance?
That can be shown proof and deny it is proof?
That will warp facts to suit their personal belief?
That even after one has fulfilled there burden of proof, will end the conversation with, "well I don't believe that..."?
Who will claim with pride that nothing can get them to change their minds?

What does one call this kind of debater?

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Re: What does one call...?

Post #2

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 1 by Willum]

A normal human being.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Post #3

Post by Zzyzx »

.
If those were the characteristics of people in general with whom I debated or associated, I would go elsewhere. There are often a few who exhibit most or all of the failings noted (and perhaps project them onto others).

In debate here they may think they ‘win’ by using disreputable tactics, but I trust that most readers recognize the folly of such attempts and contrast them with legitimate debate posts.
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If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

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Willum
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Re: What does one call...?

Post #4

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 2 by Wootah]

Odd, most people when confronted with things that are wrong, will adapt and learn.
Such a trait is often necessary for survival.

Not that there are not those who do not learn and so perish.

But really, how long did we hold onto the knowledge that tomatoes were poisonous? Not long.
How long did we believe that there were ill humors, once we discovered bacterium?

Seriously.

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Re: What does one call...?

Post #5

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Willum wrote: Odd, most people when confronted with things that are wrong, will adapt and learn.
My observation is that many or most people shown errors in their thinking will 'double down' and defend. Examples of that happening are readily apparent in these debates as well as in real life.
Willum wrote: Such a trait is often necessary for survival.
Although change is often necessary for survival, resistance to change seems to be very basic human nature – more intense in some people and very light or apparently absent in others. Those who are change-adverse fear and resist change from the familiar, the status quo.

Changes may occur on societal level rather than individual level – often across generations. As the old die out perhaps some of the worst of their ideas die with them and following generations go in new directions. However, there is a strong tendency toward indoctrinating the young in the beliefs of their family and society.

Occasionally an epiphany may radically alter an individual’s point of view or strongly held positions – but not often. People's ideas may also change gradually over years or decades. (Just don't eat tomatoes because they are poison)
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Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

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Re: What does one call...?

Post #6

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 5 by Zzyzx]
My observation is that many or most people shown errors in their thinking will 'double down' and defend. Examples of that happening are readily apparent in these debates as well as in real life.
And indeed, after they have doubled down and lost...?
resistance to change seems to be very basic human nature – more intense in some people and very light or apparently absent in others.
Indeed, it is amazing that people defend a lie, more vehemently than they defend the truth.
But the reverse is not true... it makes an excellent weather vane. You can tell then, when people are defending their lies.

Perhaps this indicator is the epiphany people require.
This is a test: Had this been an actual revolution, the virus would have been much stronger.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

Who would be proud these tactics?

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Re: What does one call...?

Post #7

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Willum wrote: And indeed, after they have doubled down and lost...?
Triple down, then quadruple down. Don’t many of these threads demonstrate that quite often no matter how much valid contradictory evidence is presented some people (who must remain unidentified) continue to defend their debunked positions, claims, stories?

Many long to return to earlier times – before knowledge and information overwhelmed their antiquated ideas.
Willum wrote:
resistance to change seems to be very basic human nature – more intense in some people and very light or apparently absent in others.
Indeed, it is amazing that people defend a lie, more vehemently than they defend the truth.
But the reverse is not true... it makes an excellent weather vane. You can tell then, when people are defending their lies.
I don’t know about that . . .
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Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

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Re: What does one call...?

Post #8

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 7 by Zzyzx]
Triple down, then quadruple down. Don’t many of these threads demonstrate that quite often no matter how much valid contradictory evidence is presented some people (who must remain unidentified) continue to defend their debunked positions, claims, stories?
So what would we call such people?

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Re: What does one call...?

Post #9

Post by Divine Insight »

Willum wrote: Odd, most people when confronted with things that are wrong, will adapt and learn.
Such a trait is often necessary for survival.
Sadly this is no longer the case. This was only true in very primitive times when evolution via natural selection was still in effect. People who failed to learn truth in those days would indeed die fairly quickly.

Today evolution by natural selection is no longer in effect. Today we are evolving via non-natural selection. People who are incapable of learning truth are simply kept alive by today's societies and technologies. Medicine is also saving the lives of many people who would have naturally died due to actions resulting from their own stupidity.

So these traits are no longer necessary for modern survival. Thus we see a sharp rise in humans who aren't very bright.

In fact, we see developments in our modern evolution that appear to be conflicting but actually aren't.

For example the intelligence of humanity as a whole is actually devolving rapidly. The masses are becoming less and less intelligent. And what I have just mentioned above explains why this occurs. It simply easier for people who aren't very bright to survive in today's world due to the assistance of others who help them along with technologies to save their lives when they do stupid things.

However, at the same time we see an increase in intelligence among the brightest humans. In other words, human intelligence is still increasing, it's just increasing in fewer individual cases. Humanity as a whole is actually declining in intelligence due to the reasons outlined above.
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

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Re: What does one call...?

Post #10

Post by Zzyzx »

.
Willum wrote:
Zzyzx wrote:Triple down, then quadruple down. Don’t many of these threads demonstrate that quite often no matter how much valid contradictory evidence is presented some people (who must remain unidentified) continue to defend their debunked positions, claims, stories?
So what would we call such people?
We don't call them anything on this Forum (or identify them personally) -- Forum Rules and decorum prevent a forthright answer.
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Non-Theist

If you stop claiming knowledge of invisible, undetectable unicorns, I will stop challenging your claim. Same goes for gods

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

For a quick tutorial on science vs. religion, compare modern internet weather radar to ancient religious beliefs and superstitions about weather

"Demand money with the threat of violence and you'll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it's tax deductible"

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