Claims and Stories

[Zzyzx]

.
Religions, perhaps all of the thousands of religions, make claims of knowledge about supernatural entities and events. Many (or most or all) also tell stories about their favorite ‘gods’.

When clerics / preachers / prophets / promoters repeat the claims and stories to the public, some will believe (take their word for it) – particularly if told to children or to people who are downtrodden for some reason or situation.

The claims and stories are repeated in frequent, often weekly, reinforcement meetings as well as ‘study groups’ (organized to study the stories), retreats, summer camps, revivals, etc. Being told to a willing, receptive audience the reception is expected to be positive. People seem to enjoy telling each other stories and discussing commonly held beliefs.

When dissension arises concerning the claims and stories, groups simply split into two or more – telling different versions of the same things. Tens of thousands of Christian denominations are the result of such splitting. Over time the different versions result in VERY diverse teachings that still claim the umbrella of Christianity.

Religionists appear to believe the claims and stories (at least to some extent). They often attempt to convince others to join in the beliefs – either to convert from other factions / religions or to convert from non-belief.

Proselytizing (or ‘spreading the word’) may encounter strong opposition from people who base decisions on verifiable evidence. Response from religionists is often to ‘double down’ and tell more stories and make more claims (and repeat) as though that would become convincing.

When ‘Take my word for it (or his or this book)’, or threats and promises (for ‘after you die’), or emotional testimonials – religionists have nothing more to offer (and typically move on to softer targets / more receptive audience).

Question for debate: Why should anyone believe the claims and tales of any religion?

[wiploc]

Non-Theist -- ANY of the thousands of ‘gods’ proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist – awaiting verifiable evidence

Are you defining "nontheist" to exclude gnostic atheists? That doesn't make sense.

Also, it's just wrong to say that any of those gods can exist. These days, we know what causes thunder, and it isn't gods bowling atop the clouds.

The standard Christian god is omnipotent but can't defeat iron chariots. He is all-loving but he tortures people forever. He is absolutely just but nonetheless merciful. He can be seen but he can't be seen.

Contradictory gods cannot exist, so they do not exist. It doesn't matter how much "evidence" is awaited.

[Zzyzx]

.

Are you defining "nontheist" to exclude gnostic atheists? That doesn't make sense.

That is from my signature -- not a definition or anything for debate.

I identify as a Non-Theist -- but maintain that gods MAY exist, awaiting evidence. Maximum length of signature does not leave room for further clarification.

[Clownboat]

.
Religions, perhaps all of the thousands of religions, make claims of knowledge about supernatural entities and events. Many (or most or all) also tell stories about their favorite ‘gods’.

When clerics / preachers / prophets / promoters repeat the claims and stories to the public, some will believe (take their word for it) – particularly if told to children or to people who are downtrodden for some reason or situation.

The claims and stories are repeated in frequent, often weekly, reinforcement meetings as well as ‘study groups’ (organized to study the stories), retreats, summer camps, revivals, etc. Being told to a willing, receptive audience the reception is expected to be positive. People seem to enjoy telling each other stories and discussing commonly held beliefs.

When dissension arises concerning the claims and stories, groups simply split into two or more – telling different versions of the same things. Tens of thousands of Christian denominations are the result of such splitting. Over time the different versions result in VERY diverse teachings that still claim the umbrella of Christianity.

Religionists appear to believe the claims and stories (at least to some extent). They often attempt to convince others to join in the beliefs – either to convert from other factions / religions or to convert from non-belief.

Proselytizing (or ‘spreading the word’) may encounter strong opposition from people who base decisions on verifiable evidence. Response from religionists is often to ‘double down’ and tell more stories and make more claims (and repeat) as though that would become convincing.

When ‘Take my word for it (or his or this book)’, or threats and promises (for ‘after you die’), or emotional testimonials – religionists have nothing more to offer (and typically move on to softer targets / more receptive audience).

Question for debate: Why should anyone believe the claims and tales of any religion?

They shouldn't.
It is not logically consistent to believe in one religion due to claims being made about it, but then reject literally every other religion out there when the evidence (claims) is the same.

If claims are good enough, then a desire to believe is all that is needed. The claims don't even have to be 'good' as we witness here on this site.

[1213]

...Tens of thousands of Christian denominations are the result of such splitting....

Do you know where could I find a list of all those denominations?

[JJ50]

If a claim cannot be backed up with evidence, one has a right to be to be sceptical.

[JehovahsWitness]

Question for debate: Why should anyone believe the claims and tales of any religion?

Presumably because there is enough evidence to convince them that would be the wise thing to do. That's why I joined my own religion (Jehovah's Witnesses)



Source https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion


JW


FURTHER READING Do You Need Organized Religion?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/maga ... -religion/




RELATED POSTS

Is religion essentiel?
viewtopic.php?p=1039204#p1039204

Is it "blasphemous" to say one must associate with Jehovah's organisation to be saved?
viewtopic.php?p=1039587#p1039587

Is religion declining?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 45#p870345

Is "docrine" and "denomination" important?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 91#p846991

Should one leave a religion one disagree with?
viewtopic.php?p=1060565#p1060565

Who or What is "Babylon the Great"?
viewtopic.php?p=1065532#p1065532

Are all religions cults?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 52#p813652

Did Jesus intend to start a "new religion"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 45#p792645

Do Jehovah's witnesses accept the concept of "true religion"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 30#p861330

Is any religion a truly united international brotherhood?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 48#p798748

Who are the principle victims of religious persecution?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 74#p800474

To read more please go to other posts related to...

RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY and ...CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS

[William]

[Replying to post 1 by ]

Zzyzx: Proselytizing (or ‘spreading the word’) may encounter strong opposition from people who base decisions on verifiable evidence. Response from religionists is often to ‘double down’ and tell more stories and make more claims (and repeat) as though that would become convincing.

When ‘Take my word for it (or his or this book)’, or threats and promises (for ‘after you die’), or emotional testimonials – religionists have nothing more to offer (and typically move on to softer targets / more receptive audience).

Question for debate: Why should anyone believe the claims and tales of any religion?

William: There seems to be nothing in the question which points to some issue which requires debate.
There simple is no actual existing evidence that shows us that there is any requirement that anyone should to have to believe claims and tales of any religion.
If there were such a ruling, then there would be something to debate.

[benchwarmer]

...Tens of thousands of Christian denominations are the result of such splitting....

Do you know where could I find a list of all those denominations?

Is your Google broken?

Mine found the following in less that 5 seconds:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_C ... ominations
https://www.christianity.com/church/denominations/
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/branches

The above just scratch the surface.

Edited to add the following resource:

https://worldchristiandatabase.org/

And edited again to add the following article admonishing Catholics (this is from Catholics) to stop saying there are 33,000 protestant denomoninations.

http://www.ncregister.com/blog/scotteri ... ominations

Which has the following quote:

The source is the two-volume World Chris­t­ian Ency­clo­pe­dia (Bar­rett, Kurian, and John­son; Oxford Uni­ver­sity Press). Take note of the pas­sage where the 33,000 fig­ure comes up:

World Chris­tian­ity con­sists of 6 major ecclesiastico-​cultural blocs, divided into 300 major eccle­si­as­ti­cal tra­di­tions, com­posed [sic] of over 33,000 dis­tinct denom­i­na­tions in 238 coun­tries (Vol. I, p. 16).

So accord­ing to the WCE, the 33,000 fig­ure rep­re­sents “world Chris­tian­ity.� Now unless a Catholic wants to sup­pose that “world Chris­tian­ity� means Protes­tantism, the num­ber would have to be some­thing less. 33,000, accord­ing to the source from which the num­ber comes, means the whole of Chris­tian­ity, not Protes­tantism specif­i­cally.

The WCE then goes on to break down “world Chris­tian­ity� into the fol­low­ing broad cat­e­gories:

Inde­pen­dents: 22,000 denom­i­na­tions
Protes­tants: 9000 denom­i­na­tions
Mar­gin­als: 1600 denom­i­na­tions
Ortho­dox: 781 denom­i­na­tions
Catholics: 242 denom­i­na­tions
Angli­cans: 168 denom­i­na­tions

Note that the Catholic source confirms that there are indeed 10s of thousands of Christian denominations. They just want you to not spread false numbers about the Protestants. I guess they don't consider independents Protestant.

Anyway, the point is that there is plenty of information on the interwebs if one only takes a few moments to look.

[Tcg]

Question for debate: Why should anyone believe the claims and tales of any religion?

Presumably because there is enough evidence to convince them that would be the wise thing to do. That's why I joined my own religion (Jehovah's Witnesses)

Jehovah's Witnesses is not a religion. It is a denomination of the Christian religion.

I've met very few people who claim to have been convinced to join your religion, Christianity, or any other for that matter, based on evidence. Testimony after testimony witnesses that it is often a response to an emotional appeal to wish fulfillment. This of course most likely occurring during childhood.


Tcg