The REAL story of creation

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Zzyzx
Site Supporter
Posts: 25089
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Bible Belt USA
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 73 times

The REAL story of creation

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

.
From a current thread:
bjs wrote: The reason for this is that I have found that the majority of non-Christians who want to debate the creation account in Genesis wildly misrepresent that account. They insist that passage must be precisely literal. They ignore context and literary style in order to create a version of the story that they find most useful for attacking beliefs they disagree with. They abandon accuracy for a perceived advantage in a debate.
Okay. I, for one, am open to hearing the official REAL story of creation. The version you prefer.
bjs wrote: I am sure that there are exceptions to this attitude among atheists, but those exceptions are rare enough that I have largely given up on the effort.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory? Here's your chance to reach many people with the correct version of 'creation'.

Question for debate: What is the real story of creation according to Genesis (or other sources)?
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

User avatar
Tcg
Savant
Posts: 8487
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:01 am
Location: Third Stone
Has thanked: 2141 times
Been thanked: 2293 times

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #2

Post by Tcg »

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]


I too am very interested in hearing the REAL story.

I am very familiar with the various interpretations Christians use to hold onto a literal approach. Much less so for figurative approaches. Hopefully we'll get a number of replies presenting those and of course some method to spot the genuine article.


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

User avatar
Divine Insight
Savant
Posts: 18070
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:59 pm
Location: Here & Now
Been thanked: 19 times

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #3

Post by Divine Insight »

bjs wrote: They ignore context and literary style in order to create a version of the story that they find most useful for attacking beliefs they disagree with.
Most atheists aren't attacking your beliefs. All they are doing is explaining why they are convinced by these ignorant and clearly immoral stories.

To be perfectly honest with you I couldn't care less what you might believe.

What you believe has absolutely nothing at all to do why I have rejected Hebrew Mythology and Christianity as being a clearly false and man-made religion.
bjs wrote: They abandon accuracy for a perceived advantage in a debate.
I couldn't care less about any advantage in a debate. I don't debate to win a debate. I simply point out the extreme ignorance, immorality, and obvious flaws and self-contradictions of these ancient fables.

We already know that death, disease, and all manner of imperfections existed long before humans ever showed up on planet earth. The authors of Biblical fables clearly had no clue about reality. Today we know better.

Humans did not cause the ills of the world because of a fall from grace.

That's all we need to know. These fables are false. Sorry if anyone finds that disappointing.

In fact, I find it strange that anyone would be disappointed to discover that humans are not in hot water with a creator. Why anyone insists on clinging to these ancient fables is beyond me.

You'd think Christians would be especially thrilled to discover that they had nothing at all to do with the brutal crucifixion of Christ (assuming it even happened).
[center]Image
Spiritual Growth - A person's continual assessment
of how well they believe they are doing
relative to what they believe a personal God expects of them.
[/center]

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #4

Post by JehovahsWitness »

The bible account lists 10 major stages in this order:
(1) a beginning
(2) a primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water
(3) light;
(4) an expanse or atmosphere;
(5) large areas of dry land;
(6) land plants;
(7) sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning; (8) sea monsters and flying creatures;
(9) wild and tame beasts, mammals;
(10) man.
Science agrees that these stages occurred in this general order. What are the chances that the writer of Genesis just guessed this order? The same as if you picked at random the numbers 1 to 10 from a box, and drew them in consecutive order. The chances of doing this on your first try are 1 in 3,628,800!" - Life—How Did It Get Here? By Evolution or by Creation? (pub WTBTS) p. 36 par 34


Image



RELATED POSTS


Does the bible contain scientifically accurate insights about the origin of the Universe?
viewtopic.php?p=1032301#p1032301
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #5

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Continued from post #4 above by JehovahsWitness

The Genesis account presents a simple but accurate account of the major stages of creation. Nothing in it contradicts proven scientific fact.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 29#p982529


RELATED POSTS



IN THE BEGINNING ...
Did anything exist prior to "the beginning"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 99#p882099

What are we to understand with the expression "God created the heavens"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 09#p763409

What was the "waterty deep" referred to at the beginning of the creation account?
viewtopic.php?p=1076892#p1076892

How does the bible describe "Early Earth"?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 41#p836741

Does the bible teach the earth is FLAT?
viewtopic.php?p=1032310#p1032310

Was early earth a bad mistake?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 73#p836673

Where (in chronological order) in the bible narrative does the creation of the physical universe come ?
viewtopic.php?p=818172#p818172
THE CREATIVE "DAYS"


Are the ORDER of events in the Genesus creation account scientifically sound?
viewtopic.php?p=1032442#p1032442


DAY #1

When did light come to be?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 15#p763415

Are the days spoken of in Genesist to be understood to be 24 hours long?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 29#p886229

DAY #2

What is the "firmament" spoken of in the Genesis creation account?
viewtopic.php?p=1066900#p1066900

Does the firmament" referred to a solid dome over the earth?
viewtopic.php?p=833325#p833325

DAY #3

Does Genesis 1 refer to the creation of the literal seas/océans on this our planet earth?
viewtopic.php?p=1066494#p1066494

Could life have emerged from non living matter?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 89#p849689

DAY #4

Does the bible say God created plants before the sun?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 17#p836617

DAY #5

Were genes designed ?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 28#p926628

Do Jehovahs Witnesses believe in dinosaurs?
viewtopic.php?p=1049467#p1049467

DAY #6

Was the planet earth FINISHED by the end of the 6th creative day of Genesis?
viewtopic.php?p=1104058#p1104058

Was the earth ideal by the end of the 6TH creative day of Genesis?
viewtopic.php?p=1104041#p1104041

Could the earth be described as "idyllic" by the end if the 6TH creative day ?
viewtopic.php?p=1103630#p1103630

Was the whole earth a PARADISE by the end of the 6th creative day?
viewtopic.php?p=1103635#p1103635

Did the garden of EDEN cover the entire planet earth?
viewtopic.php?p=1092491#p1092491
SCIENCE
Does science have any limits?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 21#p918321

What are the wonders of creation?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 82#p852182

Do atheists really value empiracle evidence?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 65#p974565
Sir Fred Hoyle and the Limits of Scientific Inquiry (blog entry)
https://fosterheologicalreflections.blo ... ts-of.html

PLAYLIST 6 hour YTube: Evolution debunked



Does the bible contain scientifically accurate insights about the origin of the Universe?
viewtopic.php?p=1032301#p1032301

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

EARLY EARTH, THE GARDEN OF EDEN and ...THE 7 CREATIVE DAYS OF GENESIS
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:01 pm, edited 17 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

Zzyzx
Site Supporter
Posts: 25089
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Bible Belt USA
Has thanked: 40 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #6

Post by Zzyzx »

.
JehovahsWitness wrote: The Genesis account presents a simple but accurate account of the major stages of creation.
Opinion noted -- and dismissed as of no significance in debate.

Kindly identify the author of said Genesis creation account and show that the author had direct personal knowledge of the events described.
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

User avatar
brunumb
Savant
Posts: 5993
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:20 am
Location: Melbourne
Has thanked: 6607 times
Been thanked: 3209 times

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #7

Post by brunumb »

[Replying to post 5 by JehovahsWitness]
The Genesis account presents a simple but accurate account of the major stages of creation. Nothing in it contradicts proven scientific fact.
The Genesis accounts present a simple but inaccurate account of the major stages leading to Earth as we know it now. Most of it contradicts proven scientific fact.
There, fixed it for you.
George Orwell:: “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”
Voltaire: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
Gender ideology is anti-science, anti truth.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #8

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Zzyzx wrote: .
JehovahsWitness wrote: The Genesis account presents a simple but accurate account of the major stages of creation.
Opinion noted -- and dismissed as of no significance in debate.
How can it be of significance when the QUESTION FOR DEBATE is...
Zzyzx wrote:
Question for debate: What is the real story of creation according to Genesis (or other sources)?
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21073
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 790 times
Been thanked: 1114 times
Contact:

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #9

Post by JehovahsWitness »

brunumb wrote:
The Genesis accounts present a simple but inaccurate account of the major stages leading to Earth as we know it now. Most of it contradicts proven scientific fact.
Please present evidence to support your claim.



JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
Willum
Savant
Posts: 9017
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Yahweh's Burial Place
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 82 times

Re: The REAL story of creation

Post #10

Post by Willum »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
brunumb wrote: The Genesis accounts present a simple but inaccurate account of the major stages leading to Earth as we know it now. Most of it contradicts proven scientific fact.
Please present evidence to support your claim.
JW
Nay, you have made a claim that flies in the face of reason and science.
You made your claim first.
It is irrational.
You must support your claim, and kindly not with something hotly contested, or with something that has a bunch of anecdotal tales of magic, please.
Last edited by Willum on Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

Post Reply