Philippians 2:5-11

[Wootah]

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.


Anyone want to explain how Jesus isn't God based upon this passage verse 6 in particular?

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 48 by Tcg]

I hope that has always been clear. Clearly yes.

It became very unclear when you asked this:

• Also God is omnipotent, He can appear on Earth as a whole man or a whole frog. If God appeared as a frog now, would he no longer be God?

Are you now agreeing that this question is therefore meaningless?


Tcg

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 48 by Tcg]

I hope that has always been clear. Clearly yes.

It became very unclear when you asked this:

• Also God is omnipotent, He can appear on Earth as a whole man or a whole frog. If God appeared as a frog now, would he no longer be God?

Are you now agreeing that this question is therefore meaningless?


Tcg

Why is it meaningless?

[myth-one.com]

So do you agree Christ had to become a man in order to be our high priest?

What was he before 'the days of his flesh' (bear in mind this line, 'Although he was a Son'.)?

There are two type of bodies -- natural and spiritual.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

God is a Spirit.

Another spiritual bodied being is the Word:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)

The Word was made flesh as the natural bodied man Jesus Christ:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)

Jesus Christ was made to be "a little lower than the angels," exactly as man was created!

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? ...For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, (Psalm 8:4-5)

So the spiritual Word has always existed, and Jesus was the Word made flesh for about 33 years.

We now await the Second Coming of "Jesus Christ."

The Second Coming is described in Revelation chapter nineteen:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Revelation 19:11-13)

The Word was made flesh as Jesus for the purpose of living a sinless human life and dying.

That mission was accomplished about 2020 years ago.

There is absolutely no reason for the Word made flesh to exist again.

Thus, He will return as The Word, who has existed eternally -- "and his name is called The Word of God."

Throughout the entire time, He was the Son of God -- both as the Word and as Jesus.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 48 by Tcg]

I hope that has always been clear. Clearly yes.

It became very unclear when you asked this:

• Also God is omnipotent, He can appear on Earth as a whole man or a whole frog. If God appeared as a frog now, would he no longer be God?

Are you now agreeing that this question is therefore meaningless?


Tcg

Why is it meaningless?

Because, as you have already agreed, according to your account Jesus didn't simply appear as a man. Are you now retracting that claim?


Tcg

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 53 by Tcg]

I'm lost. I'll leave it for now and let others explain (if they wish) the difficulty you are trying to present.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 52 by myth-one.com]

So the spiritual Word has always existed, and Jesus was the Word made flesh for about 33 years.

So there are two Gods that have always existed? God and the Word?

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 53 by Tcg]

I'm lost. I'll leave it for now and let others explain (if they wish) the difficulty you are trying to present.

It's not complicated nor do we need others to explain it. You claim that Jesus didn't merely appear to be a man, but actually became one. Your question then asking if God could appear as a man, or a frog, is meaningless given that you claim he did neither, but rather actually became a man. I have no idea where the frog enters this discussion, but that's on you not me.


Tcg

[PinSeeker]

It's quite ironic to me, and troubling, really, that a passage that was written by Paul to encourage the Philppians to consider other people's interests first, and to all of us to encourage greater humility and love is the subject of such theological debate.

But such as it is:

PHILIPPIANS 2:6
Prior to the incarnation, Christ was in the form of God. Despite the assertions of some to the contrary, this most naturally refers to the preexistence of Christ -- He, the eternal Son, was there with the Father (John 1:1, 17:5, 24) before He was born in Bethlehem. "Form" here means the true and exact nature of something, possessing all the characteristics and qualities of something. Therefore have the "form of God" is equivalent to having equality with God, and it is directly contrasted with having the "form of a servant" (2:7). The Son of God is and always has been God. "Form" is also a reference to Christ being the ultimate image of God, "the exact imprint of His nature" (Hebrews 1:3). It also refers to the fact that He is the visible expression of God's invisible glory (Colossians 1:15). Remarkably, Christ did not imagine that having "equality with God" (which He already possessed) should lead Him to hold onto His privileges at all costs. It was not something to be grasped, to be kept and exploited for His own benefit or advantage. Instead, He had a mindset of service. "Christ did not please Himself" (Romans 15:3). In humility, He counted the interests of others as more significant than His own (Philippians 2:3-4).

PHILIPPIANS 2:7
The English Standard Version (ESV) actually does a much better job of translating this verse to English than do some other versions. Translating it as "emptied Himself", is not a terrible rendering, but is more ambiguous than it should be and can cause confusion such as we are seeing in this thread. The better rendering is "made Himself nothing", and in this way, He took the form of a servant. Christ did not temporarily relinquish His divine attributes during His earthly ministry; this is not in accord with the context of Paul's letter to the Philippians. Paul is not saying that Christ became less than God or "gave up" some diving attributes; he is not even commenting directly on the question of whether Jesus was fully omnipotent or omniscient during His time on earth. Nor is he saying that Christ ever gave up being "in the form of God." Rather, Paul is stressing that Christ, Who had all the privileges that were rightly His as king of the universe, gave them up to become an ordinary Jewish baby bound for the cross. Christ "made Himself nothing" by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. While He had every right to stay comfortably where He was, in a position of power, His love drove Him to a position of weakness for the sake of sinful mankind (2 Corinthians 8:9, "though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you by His poverty might become rich"). The "emptying" consisted of His becoming human, not of His giving up any part of His true deity.

HEBREWS 5
During His childhood, Jesus was not lacking in any Godly character quality, but He was lacking in the full experience of having lived a perfect human life, obeying the Father in everything, without sin. The lifelong perfect obedience of Jesus (5:8, 7:26-28) provides the basis for eternal salvation and for the ultimate "perfection" of those who respond in faith and obedience. Thus, as a man, even though He was (and is) fully God, He learned obedience and was made perfect through the course of His earthly life.

Now, I asked you about Melchizadek. Ether you don't know, or you don't want to say. No matter; I'll do it for you. Jesus is compared to Melchizadek in Hebrews 7. Melchizadek was a type, a foreshadowing of Christ. The Hebrew name Melchizadek means "king of righteousness," and Salem ("peace," "shalem") is his city. It is in this order that Jesus, the true King of righteousness and the Prince of Peace, reigns forever.

Jesus was always, is, and forever will be, the second person of the triune Godhead.

Grace and peace to you.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 52 by myth-one.com]

So the spiritual Word has always existed, and Jesus was the Word made flesh for about 33 years.

So there are two Gods that have always existed? God and the Word?

Excuse me while I have a good chuckle...

[Eloi]

[Replying to Wootah]

Wootah

Was Jesus a physical being before becoming human? What physical state does God have?

That is a very interesting question, and probably the whole issue about the expression "form of God" is totally into this ...

God created a lot of creatures in the spiritual world, all of them spirits as He is Spirit. We can not see them, BUT definitely they can see each other in the world they live in. They can communicate each other and each one of them have names and are individuals. They are divided in families and have differences among them. We can learn about it from the Bible.

They are not the same class of creatures we are, so we can not call them as "physical" in our own sense, because they are not. But since they are individuals, they obviously must have a "physical" appearance in their own spiritual world. How it is? I don't know, but when the Bible says Jesus emptied himself and became a human, it is obvious that he had to renounce to all "physical" characteristics he had in the spiritual region. In the Bible, sometimes angels are called as "gods" and for us, that is because they are superior than us in their own nature. Jesus himself was one of them and to become a man he lost all characteristics he had as a spiritual and godly being. When he was human he said to God:

John 17:5 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

One thing Jesus kept when he became a human, but has nothing to do with "the form of God" he had before; he kept his personality, that one that resembles the personality of his own Father, God.

John 1:14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth.

So what Jesus kept when he became human is not the form of God he had in heaven next to God; he had to renounce to that and ask his Father for Him to give him back what he renounced to in his human mission. When the Bible says Jesus was exalted to a superior position in the Universe, it is obvious he is not God and never was equal to Him ... God can not be exalted to a superior position, there is no position supeior to the one God has:

1 Cor. 15:27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.� But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.

Heb. 1:1 Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high. 4 So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

That is the real story and anything that contradicts it is a fantasy.