Philippians 2:5-11

Wootah · Post by **Wootah** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:12 am

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to deathâ€”
even death on a cross!

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to explain how Jesus isn't God based upon this passage verse 6 in particular?

myth-one.com · Post by **myth-one.com** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:57 pm

PinSeeker wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: God will forgive you. Just be sincere and repentant.
Right, well, same to you, brother, and Wootah, and myth-one, and all our JW friends here, and everyone else. Grace and peace to you all.

I can't speak for brianbbs67 and Wootak, but I am not a JW.

I have not become one since the last time you included me as one.

I do not have any fear or complaints against any JW's -- as you seem to have.

It's simply that I do not want anyone to believe that I am knowledgeable about, and can speak for them.

I believe the scriptures and quote scripture to support my beliefs.

If the JW's do the same also, then good for them.

If we have some similar beliefs, that's OK with me.

Nonetheless, I'm not sure whether my beliefs are similar to the JW's or not.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:33 pm

Wootah wrote: In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to deathâ€”
even death on a cross!

9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

Anyone want to explain how Jesus isn't God based upon this passage verse 6 in particular?

I think this is one of the worst renderings I have seen. There are many versions that actually say the exact opposite of what your version above says.

I'll quote a few, but first I would like to make the point that the verses above contradict themselves.....verses 8 and 9 contradicting verse 6. Your verse 6 says that Jesus was equal to God, being, in effect, God. But in verse 8 it says that Christ was obedient. Does GOD obey anyone? God is the ultimate in power and wisdom. If Christ is God, why would he have to obey anyone? And who would this individual be that he was obeying?

Then in verse 9 it says that God exalted Christ because he obeyed. Christ was exalted to a level that he wasn't before. How can God become higher than He was at any point in history? I think being God is the highest anyone can be. Yet Christ was made higher than when he started out. That does not harmonize with the idea that he was God. God doesn't need to OBEY , nor can He be EXALTED to a higher position.

Therefore, these verses contradict verse 6 that erroneously states that Jesus is God.

Now, there are several versions that say, or are in agreement with, what the following says, at Philippians 2:6:

(1) "Although he was like God in nature [that is, he was SPIRIT; see John 4:24], he never even considered seizing the chance to be equal with God." (21st Century New Testament)

(2) "Who, being in the form of God [spirit], did not consider equality with God something to be grasped." (NIV)

(3) "Who, although he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped." (New American Standard Bible)

(4) "Who, although he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped." (Revised Standard Version)

(5) "He was in the form of God, yet he laid no claim to equality with God." (Revised English Bible)

These are just five versions that render Phil.2:6 in a much different way, and I could post several more if you wish.

They all say that Jesus would not even try to GRASP a position like the Most High, and to "GRASP" means to take something that one did not possess before. If you would like to understand the meaning of "GRASP" further, a brilliant discussion about this can be found in Jason BeDuhn's book, Truth in Translation. He is not affiliated with any religion, so has no ax to grind. A book well worth reading.

So, no, Jesus is NOT God, and it is really quite easy to see this when considering versions other than whatever yours is. It probably follows the KJV, which made a quite incomprehensible rendering of the original Greek text.

WeSee · Post by **WeSee** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:11 pm

[Replying to post 77 by marco]

Jesus, as we know, loved figurative speech, so why would we accept that he is speaking figuratively on most occasions when he talks about himself as shepherd, way, light, truth... and on this occasion, where it seems certain he is again using figurative language, we take an extraordinary meaning from his words?

Exactly. Good to see that you came to understand this after you were so resistant to it on the "Why did Jesus say: 'Buy a sword!'" thread.

"I speak to them in parables"

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:53 pm

PinSeeker wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:
PinSeeker wrote: [Replying to post 72 by JehovahsWitness]

LOL! Actually, I did forget one... somehow... --

â€œTruly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.â€� [John 8:58]
To both of you, context is key. But some pointedly ignore such things...

Grace and peace to all.
That actually proves nothing as to Jesus being God....
So you and others say (incorrectly). Unfortunate.

Grace and peace to you.

Peace again. If Christ is God or not doesn't matter, unless you believe he changes God's instructions? If not(christ being God or not), it matters not as long as we believe in God and thru Him receive forgiveness. The message is the same no matter which way you believe. Repent and follow God. Same message in the OT. Its the cohesive message of God. Come back to Me and be forgiven.

myth-one.com · Post by **myth-one.com** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:13 pm

brianbbs67 wrote:If Christ is God or not doesn't matter, unless you believe he changes God's instructions? If not(christ being God or not), it matters not as long as we believe in God and thru Him receive forgiveness. The message is the same no matter which way you believe. Repent and follow God. Same message in the OT. Its the cohesive message of God. Come back to Me and be forgiven.

PinSeeker · Post by **PinSeeker** » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:22 pm

brianbbs67 wrote: Peace again. If Christ is God or not doesn't matter, unless you believe he changes God's instructions? If not(christ being God or not), it matters not as long as we believe in God and thru Him receive forgiveness. The message is the same no matter which way you believe. Repent and follow God. Same message in the OT. Its the cohesive message of God. Come back to Me and be forgiven.

Fair enough. We can leave it at that. One thing, though: We have reconciliation through Jesus with God, for sure. By Jesus's work on the cross and through Him, as you say, we receive forgiveness. For sure. However, as I'm sure you know, Jesus forgave sins, something only God can do. Now, He could only do so with authority given to Him by the Father, but, even so...

Anyway. Yes. Grace and peace to you.

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:09 am

[Replying to post 1 by Wootah]

God.
Creator of heaven and Earth

Transformed himself into a human in order to save those who would rather let him kill himself than be obedient to his Torah.
Allowing himself to be spit on and humiliated and nailed to a tree to die slowly. WHAT A HORRIBLE THING TO SAY ABOUT GOD

Christians say Jesus (God) replaced the law (replaced himself) and gave them a new set of rules. Oh my....they have no idea what they are obligating themself to do by obeyibg the one called jesus.

Jesus commands:
RESIST NOT EVIL
LOVE YOUR ENEMIES, BLESS THEM THAT CURSE YOU, DO GOOD TO THEM THAT HATE YOU AND PRAY FOR THEM WHICH DESPITEFULLY USE YOU

THEY DO LOVE THEIR ENEMY. THEY HAVE GIVEN THEIR ENEMY ALL THEY HAVE. THEY ARE GOOD TO THE ONE WHO HATES THEM AND DESPITEFULLY USES THEM. Only they don't realize it.

THEY SHOULD REMEMBER THAT JESUS COMMANDS THAT THEY LOVE OTHERS AS HE HAS LOVED THEM.
BEHOLD HOW HE LOVED THEM!

OF COURSE HE COMMANDS THEM TO LOVE THEIR ENEMY. Very clever

marco · Post by **marco** » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:38 am

Avoice wrote:

Allowing himself to be spit on and humiliated and nailed to a tree to die slowly. WHAT A HORRIBLE THING TO SAY ABOUT GOD

Well he died rather quickly and apparently got a new uniform when he woke up two days later. Since the incarnation involves the deity taking on human clothes, it was the clothing that was subjected to some humiliation, not the divinity.

It strikes me as amusing that you take issue with Jesus for urging folk to love each other, but pardon Yahweh for his mass murders, his brutality, his wicked order to Abraham and his shameful treatment of kids who merely mocked somebody. The one is pretty decent, the other brutal in extremis.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:08 pm

brianbbs67 wrote: [Replying to post 66 by PinSeeker]

I realized I may be misunderstood. I worship none but YHVH, God. I follow Yeshua's way but do not worship him. "Good, why do you call me Good? None are good but YHVH."

Your post even makes my coffee taste better! Thank you.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:15 pm

JehovahsWitness wrote: [Replying to post 66 by PinSeeker]

You forgot

â€œI am thirsty.â€� â€” John 19:28

I am distressed - Luke 12:50

The verb to be is one of the most common verbs in any language, it is absolutely ludicrous to conclude every time Jesus used that verb regardless of the context he was declaring himself equal to Almighty God YHWH, The Father.

JOHN 5:58 I AM
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 271#367271

RELATED POSTS : The "I AM" texts

John 8:58
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 842#935842

John 8:24
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 863#935863

John 13 :19
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 868#935868

John 18:4-8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 870#935870

Mark 14:62
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 192#936192

RELATED POSTS

Romans 9:5 (tigger)
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 775#982775

Plus....the "I AM" text that involves a man that was born blind, who uses the exact words Jesus used when the man said, "I AM HE." (John 9:9)

If saying "I am" makes a person God, then the formerly blind man is also God.

Debating Christianity and Religion

Philippians 2:5-11

Philippians 2:5-11

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Re: Philippians 2:5-11