Is naturalism true?

[otseng]

Underlying many of the attacks on the Bible and Christianity is the belief that materialism is true. If materialism is true, then miracles, Christ rising from the dead, virgin birth, existence of supernatural entities, people receiving revelations, the Bible being the inspired word of God, people going to heaven or hell, etc would all be false.

A definition of naturalism:

According to Steven Schafersman, naturalism is a philosophy that maintains that;
1. Nature encompasses all that exists throughout space and time;
2. Nature (the universe or cosmos) consists only of natural elements, that is, of spatio-temporal physical substance—mass–energy. Non-physical or quasi-physical substance, such as information, ideas, values, logic, mathematics, intellect, and other emergent phenomena, either supervene upon the physical or can be reduced to a physical account;
3. Nature operates by the laws of physics and in principle, can be explained and understood by science and philosophy;
4. The supernatural does not exist, i.e., only nature is real. Naturalism is therefore a metaphysical philosophy opposed primarily by supernaturalism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalism_(philosophy)

For debate:
Is naturalism true?
Why?

[JehovahsWitness]

“There is no requirement for a supernatural explanation to any phenomenon within the universe� is “true� - certainly to a pragmatic level of confidence.

Yet the universe is governed by laws which cannot be explained by the universe which those laws govern. Indeed short of the universenbeing infinite, which to date is not the consensus, any beginning to matter imposes a supernatural input (ie the existence of that which is not subject to the laws which govern said universe).

[Zzyzx]

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Yet the universe is governed by laws which cannot be explained by the universe which those laws govern.

The ‘laws’ to which you refer are human words (constructs) used in attempts to understand the universe. They are not something that governs the universe.

Indeed short of the universenbeing infinite, which to date is not the consensus,

We do not know the extent of the universe.

any beginning to matter imposes a supernatural input

Opinion noted

[Bust Nak]

I think we can all agree that science is based on methodological naturalism. So, there's not much to debate on that, except perhaps if it should be applied to religion.

Any time religion makes a claim physical claim, methodological naturalism can be applies. And it should be applied if one cares about testing for truth.

But, the main point of debate is on metaphysical naturalism (or materialism). What does reality consist of? Is it only what is in "nature" or does it also consist of what is outside of nature?

I don't see why this need to be a separate conversation. What's wrong with, whatever is reality consist of, we label it "material." Whatever exist, we label it "nature?"

Show me a ghost and I would say "wow, so ghosts are actually natural" instead of "wow, so the supernatural actually exists."

[JehovahsWitness]

.

Yet the universe is governed by laws which cannot be explained by the universe which those laws govern.

The ‘laws’ to which you refer are human words (constructs) used in attempts to understand the universe. They are not something that governs the universe.

Of course they are, that is why we call them "laws" not suggestions. If they are not respected, the physicality of our carbon based universe cannot exist.

[Bust Nak]

[Replying to post 54 by JehovahsWitness]

For what it's worth, the law of universal gravitation F=G.m1.m1/r.r is violated constantly, yet our carbon based universe exists. But I doubt that's what you had in mind.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 1 by otseng]

Naturalism cannot be true because it cannot create the universe in which we live.

1. The existence of all the laws and are in possible in the naturalistic theory. The whole modern idea that we live in a multiverse was born out of the failure of string theory to explain the laws of nature.

2. The failure of inflation theory predictions only compounds the problem that exists in natural theories.

Naturalism as a viable theory for the creation of our universe is pretty much dead. This is way you see more and more this idea that we are in some sort of computer simulation.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/simulation-hypothesis/

10 to 20 years ago no serious scientist would be seen in a documentary like this. But how times have changed.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 1 by otseng]

Naturalism cannot be true because it cannot create the universe in which we live.

1. The existence of all the laws and are in possible in the naturalistic theory. The whole modern idea that we live in a multiverse was born out of the failure of string theory to explain the laws of nature.

2. The failure of inflation theory predictions only compounds the problem that exists in natural theories.

Naturalism as a viable theory for the creation of our universe is pretty much dead. This is way you see more and more this idea that we are in some sort of computer simulation.

https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/simulation-hypothesis/

10 to 20 years ago no serious scientist would be seen in a documentary like this. But how times have changed.

So the Elohim and/or Jehovah DID create the universe …?

Based on NOTHING more than Jewish creation mythology …?

Theories do not FAIL.

Theories clear the way and lay the foundations for further theories.

Primitive ignorance looks at the sky and says "God did it".

Primitive ignorance writes creation mythology.

Primitive ignorance unquestioningly believes creation mythology is the "Word of God".

Primitive ignorance howls and spits at developing scientific theories.

Primitive ignorance says scientific theories match creation mythology when creation mythology is exposed as creation mythology.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 57 by SallyF]

Yea, like there theory that we are all nothing more than some alien computer generated game. Wait, wait, it seems like I have seen this movie somewhere before. Oh what was that movie called again, oh yea the matrix. The matrix writers were much better.

Or maybe we are nothing but some random energy inside some boltzmann brain some where in the multiverse.

You can have faith that science will one day come up with a solution to the universe question. Make no mistake about it naturalism is based on faith. Naturalism is just another religion just like all the rest of the religions in the world.

[SallyF]

[Replying to post 57 by SallyF]

Yea, like there theory that we are all nothing more than some alien computer generated game. Wait, wait, it seems like I have seen this movie somewhere before. Oh what was that movie called again, oh yea the matrix. The matrix writers were much better.

Or maybe we are nothing but some random energy inside some boltzmann brain some where in the multiverse.

You can have faith that science will one day come up with a solution to the universe question. Make no mistake about it naturalism is based on faith. Naturalism is just another religion just like all the rest of the religions in the world.

Imagining (we're good at that here) that Naturalism is a religion …

Naturalism is NOT just like all the rest of the religions …!

Naturalists do not have a god that breeds with human virgins.

Naturalists do not have a genocidal god that throws tantrums

Naturalists do not believe in magic foreskins and talking animals.

Naturalists do not believe in a human blood sacrifice for the sins of the world.

Naturalists do not believe the Divine Leader is going to return to the planet of his creation with legions of angels to exterminate non-Naturalists

[Zzyzx]

.

You can have faith that science will one day come up with a solution to the universe question. Make no mistake about it naturalism is based on faith. Naturalism is just another religion just like all the rest of the religions in the world.

Not many are concerned about 'the universe question' -- a few astrophysicists and some Fundamentalist Fanatics trying to justify their ancient tales.

No one else is really concerned about the matter. It does not have any application to or effect on their life and there are more important things to focus on.