God didn’t have to give us the capability

[Willum]

God didn’t have to give us the capability TO do evil.
If we assume God exists, just for simplicity, and we assume freewill, for reasons we really have no rational or Biblical reason to do, but so we can excuse God’s actions in the garden: Then even the most fevered Judeo-Christian must admit, that although God gave us freewill, He was in no way obliged to give us the capacity to do evil.

So the issue then is, why didn’t this wise god give us freewill minus the capacity to do evil?

[Divine Insight]

The free will argument for the existence of evil clearly cannot be made to work. For two reasons.

1. If free will creates evil and God has free will, then God too must be evil.
2. If free will creates evil, then there can be no free will in heaven.

I'm sure Christians wouldn't like a heaven where they have no free will. Not only this, but if they claim to be happy living in a heaven where there is no free will permitted, then clearly heaven could have just been created without free will in the first place and there never would have been any need to give anyone free will at any time.

So I wouldn't want to have to take the theistic side of this debate.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 2 by Divine Insight]

Hmmm... Could God have given us freewill without the capability to do evil?
I think that He could have, I don't think freewill necessitated evil, and if it does not then why allow the possibility? He could have left it out - so whydidn't He?

But I think there is no answer, hence, no religion.
God, slain.

[ttruscott]

God didn’t have to give us the capability TO do evil.

IF we do not have the capacity to go against HIS will (ie, to chose evil) then our minds, our decision making aspects, our wills, are not free.

True love cannot be forced.
A true marriage cannot be forced.
True faith, holiness and worship cannot be forced.
Only by a free will decison to accept the proposal of marriage from our GOD can we be holy in HIS sight and marry HIM in the New Age.

With no capacity to say no to HIS proposal there is no free will. Your premise HE can give us a free will but not be able to choose sin, ie without the capacity to choose sin, misses the mark and leads to a false conclusion.

[Divine Insight]

True love cannot be forced.
A true marriage cannot be forced.
True faith, holiness and worship cannot be forced.
Only by a free will decison to accept the proposal of marriage from our GOD can we be holy in HIS sight and marry HIM in the New Age.

With no capacity to say no to HIS proposal there is no free will. Your premise HE can give us a free will but not be able to choose sin, ie without the capacity to choose sin, misses the mark and leads to a false conclusion.

How silly is this?

This religion proclaims that any who dare to say no to this marriage shall be damned.

How is that not an extreme attempt to force people to marry this God?

Sorry Ted but this apology doesn't even match up with the thesis of this theology.

"Marry me or be damned" is hardly the way to obtain true love.

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 5 by Divine Insight]

Christian justice system

“I order you to worship and obey me or you will be punished forever
But you have ‘free will’ to choose to worship or not."

How is that different from holding a gun to someone’s head and demanding to be worshiped and obeyed – and telling victims they have ‘free will’ to decline the generous offer to spare their life if they worship correctly and obey?

However, “If you disobey and kill someone, I’ll forgive you if you ask and repent�

How is that different than offering a murderer no punishment as long as they plead guilty and say they are sorry and won’t do it any more?



"Demand money with the threat of violence and you’ll get arrested. Do it with the threat of eternal damnation and it’s tax deductible" Steve Hofstetter

[Divine Insight]

However, “If you disobey and kill someone, I’ll forgive you if you ask and repent�

How is that different than offering a murderer no punishment as long as they plead guilty and say they are sorry and won’t do it any more?

Exactly.

And why would God need to have Jesus brutally crucified to pay for the sins of anyone?

God's going to gladly marry evil sinners who accept having his Son brutally crucified on their behalf?

Why not just have them chose whether or not they want to marry God without bothering with the whole "sacrificial lamb" thing?

If it took Jesus to change their mind then clearly they had no interest in marrying Yahweh to begin with.

Will Christians marry Yahweh? Or are they only willing to marry Jesus?

This is a major problem with this theology IMHO. If people aren't interested in obeying and marrying Yahweh then why bother with Jesus?

That makes no sense. They have basically rejected Yahweh but they're willing to marry Jesus.

It's a theology that cannot be made to work as far as I'm concerned.

If it was all about marrying Yahweh, there would be no need for Jesus.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 4 by ttruscott]

Do not assume things about the topic I did not say.

Nor do you get to impose unnecessary assumptions on MY topic.
I am saying God could have created us with freewill, but without the capability to do evil.

We could still choose to love or not love this God of yours, without doing evil.
Some could "marry" Him or not, without doing evil.

There are an infinite ways of saying no, without doing evil.
There are an infinite ways of doing many things without doing evil... and they may be done with freewill.

We could still have chosen to do all the things you mention, without doing evil.
True love is possible without evil.
Marriage is possible without evil.
True faith and holiness CAN ONLY be possible without evil.
So, your misconstrue of the topic aside, God could have given us freewill without the capability to do evil.
So, why didn't he?

[Tcg]

A true marriage cannot be forced.

Your God disagrees:

• Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

Note the phrase, "He must marry the young woman..." Your God demands forced marriage.


Tcg

[Willum]

[Replying to post 9 by Tcg]

And would we all not be as if unpledged virgins in the eyes of the Lord?