Must one believe in God to receive evidence of God?

[Tcg]

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From an active thread:

I now have evidence in my being, because I know God personally, but until one comes unto God by Faith, you will never be able to see the things of God.

Is this accurate? Must we believe in God in order to receive the evidence that would convince us that God exists?


Tcg

[Difflugia]

Is this accurate? Must we believe in God in order to receive the evidence that would convince us that God exists?

Even if it's a necessary condition, it's obviously not sufficient. I was a believer based on no evidence and ultimately it was evidence that God didn't exist that ended my belief.

[Tcg]

Is this accurate? Must we believe in God in order to receive the evidence that would convince us that God exists?

Even if it's a necessary condition, it's obviously not sufficient. I was a believer based on no evidence and ultimately it was evidence that God didn't exist that ended my belief.

So in essence, you had the opposite experience. You believed in God, but while doing so, found evidence that convinced you he didn't exist.

Doesn't this contradict the assertion that coming to God will allow one to, "see the things of God?"


Tcg

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to post 1 by Tcg]

Please remember the children. They have not faith, but innocence to see with.

Ahhh, the World progresses.

[Difflugia]

So in essence, you had the opposite experience. You believed in God, but while doing so, found evidence that convinced you he didn't exist.

Doesn't this contradict the assertion that coming to God will allow one to, "see the things of God?"

That was my experience, yes, and I think you're right.

I've been told several times since then that I must not have been a true Christian, mostly by Calvinists that believe in "Preservation of the Saints" (the "P" in TULIP). I know I was Christian, though, and know I'm not one now, so that must mean that God's not Dutch Reformed.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Tcg]

Please remember the children. They have not faith, but innocence to see with.

Does this mean you disagree that faith is needed to be able to see the things of God?

How does innocence allow children to do so?



Tcg

[ttruscott]

Is this accurate? Must we believe in God in order to receive the evidence that would convince us that God exists?

To believe in HIM as you are using this word is meaningless to Christian spirituality. The word doesn't mean to accept as real but to have faith and trust in HIM. The continued secular use of this word remains the secular materialist world's biggest confusion about Christian spirituality.

Must we have faith in HIM to experience the evidence of HIS divinity and power? NOPE - all have clearly seen the evidence of HIS divinity and power because HE has made it plain to everyone, even those that believed HE is a false god and a liar when they refused to put their faith in HIM before they clearly saw the proof...they have no excuse before the Judgement seat.

[Tcg]

To believe in HIM as you are using this word is meaningless to Christian spirituality. The word doesn't mean to accept as real but to have faith and trust in HIM.

It seems to me one would have to accept that God is real before one could "have faith and trust in HIM." If you see it differently, please explain how one could "have faith and trust in HIM" without believing he is real.

The continued secular use of this word remains the secular materialist world's biggest confusion about Christian spirituality.

I am no stranger to Christian spirituality, at least some versions of it. There is no single version of Christian spirituality and certainly not one version that is authoritative over any other.

Must we have faith in HIM to experience the evidence of HIS divinity and power? NOPE - all have clearly seen the evidence of HIS divinity and power because HE has made it plain to everyone, even those that believed HE is a false god and a liar when they refused to put their faith in HIM before they clearly saw the proof...they have no excuse before the Judgement seat.

Scare tactics are not a successful way to convince those who use reason rather than rely on emotion. This is however a perfect example of the tactics some turn to given that there is no verifiable evidence to support their position.


Tcg

[FWI]

Must we believe in God in order to receive the evidence that would convince us that God exists?

No! For what can be known about God is plain to everyone (just looking into the heavens), because God has shown it to all. Ever since the creation of the world His eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things He has made. So, humankind is without excuse.

The Universe

The complexity of our universe shows that when we have a whole composed of intricate or interconnected parts, this can only point to design and a Designer.

The universe operates by the uniform laws of nature. Where, laws require a law giver…

The Earth

The earth is the only planet circling our sun on which life, as we know it could (and does) exist. This uniqueness shows favoritism. Favoritism shows partiality and partiality shows choice and choice shows intelligence and intelligence points to God.

Like no other planet, the earth is covered with green vegetation, enormous blue-green oceans containing thousands of islands, thousands of streams and rivers, huge land masses, mountains, ice caps, and deserts that produce a spectacular variety of color and texture. This is a clear example of design and a Designer.

Life

There are reasons to believe that life is special and unique to our earth. Some evidence comes from the details of the earth's circumstances, as well as, from the observation that certain fundamental constants of nature appear to be “fine-tuned� for life's existence on our planet and not on others, which we know of. This "fine-tuning" point to a special power, which can only come from God.

The DNA code informs and programs a cell's behavior. This is only possible through a Programmer!

Therefore, belief in God is not required to recognize the truths, which I have listed and that points to an intelligent source for what exists…

[marco]

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From an active thread:

I now have evidence in my being, because I know God personally, but until one comes unto God by Faith, you will never be able to see the things of God.

Is this accurate? Must we believe in God in order to receive the evidence that would convince us that God exists?

If we can take Paul as a good example of anything, he zealously believed Christ was bad. His bump on the head, from God, changed his mind.

Perhaps the greatest cheer-leaders for God are the souls who were lost in the wilderness, as they see it, and heard the voice, as they believe it. If God has nothing to do with Yahweh, as one would fervently hope, then perhaps some intelligence beyond the dust of man does indeed communicate at the first signs of interest. God knows why.