Is slavery a sin?

[Elijah John]

For debate:

1) Is slavery a sin?
2) Has slavery always been a sin?
3) Does slavery harmonize with the Golden Rule?
4) How would you like to be kept as a slave? (related to question # 3)
5) Was slavery OK because it was practiced in Bible times, and the Law of Moses sanctioned and regulated it?
6) Does any amount of regulation make slavery OK? Or is slavery an inherently irredeemable institution?
7) Paul said "anything not of faith is sin". Is slavery "of faith"?
8) Is the Bible's seeming approval of slavery as an institution evidence of a Bible flaw?

Please address any combination of these debate questions.

[Topaz27]

[Replying to post 29 by 2timothy316]

So you'd let me beat you within an inch of your life? Exodus 21:20-21

You're willing to be my property? Exodus 21:21

You're ok with the fact that if you have a daughter while I own you, I get to keep her as a servant/slave, forever? Exodus 21:4

And they obviously didn't always take good care of their "servants" otherwise 1 Peter 2:18 would've never needed to be said.

Do you honestly think that it is ever ok, in any circumstance, to own another human being?

[Eloi]

Several things have to be taken into account to know what this whole matter is about, since the topic is diverted to different topics that are not the ones discussed here, and other issues that should be taken into account are neglected.

If the issue to be discussed here is whether in Israel there was an institution we call today "slavery" ... YES, that institution existed as is easy to see in the Bible. But that "slavery" does not have exactly the same characteristics as what we know today as "slavery", so you have to know what those differences are before you want to make a moral judgment of what was actually practiced in Israel ... some of those differences has been discussed before .

If what is to be discussed here is whether that "slavery" (the one that existed in Israel itself) was ORIGINALLY instituted by God, the answer is NO. That slavery already existed in the nations of the world of the time, just as they also had KINGS and Israel did not have it until several centuries later. The establishment of a kingdom-style system of government has its own history. I mention it because when the Israelites decided they wanted a king like the nations, they were told what the kings' rights were AS WELL as practiced normally in the nations, and they wanted to imitate that system. Kings government systems already existed in the world of the time BEFORE Israel had a king. However, it had already been explained how that system worked (Deut. 17:14-20; 1 Sam. 8:4-22). Likewise, given that "slavery" already practiced in the nations had a way of exercising, Jehovah allowed the system to be used in Israel, and yet he DID NOT ALLOW it to be practiced in the same way it was in the nations .

Protections and privileges.
The Law protected slaves from brutalities. A slave was to be set at liberty if mistreatment by the master resulted in the loss of a tooth or an eye. As the usual value for a slave was 30 shekels (compare Ex 21:32), his liberation would have meant considerable loss to the master and, therefore, would have served as a strong deterrent against abuse. Although a master could beat his slave, the slave, depending upon the decision of the judges, was to be avenged if he died under his master’s beating. However, if the slave lingered on for a day or two before dying​—this indicating that the master had not intended to kill the slave but to discipline him—​he was not to be avenged. (Ex 21:20, 21, 26, 27; Le 24:17) Also, it would appear that for the master to have been considered free of guilt the beating could not have been administered with a lethal instrument, as that would have signified intent to kill. (Compare Nu 35:16-18.) Therefore, if a slave lingered on for a day or two, there would be reasonable question as to whether the death resulted from the chastisement. A beating with a rod, for example, would not normally be fatal, as is shown by the statement at Proverbs 23:13: “Do not hold back discipline from the mere boy. In case you beat him with the rod, he will not die.�

Certain privileges were granted to slaves by the terms of the Law. As all male slaves were circumcised (Ex 12:44; compare Ge 17:12), they could eat the Passover, and slaves of the priest could eat holy things. (Ex 12:43, 44; Le 22:10, 11) Slaves were exempted from working on the Sabbath. (Ex 20:10; De 5:14) During the Sabbath year they were entitled to eat of the growth from spilled kernels and from the unpruned vine. (Le 25:5, 6) They were to share in the rejoicing associated with the sacrificing at the sanctuary and the celebration of the festivals.​—De 12:12; 16:11, 14.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004160

If the matter is whether it was Jehovah who gave the Mosaic laws related to slavery or were ideas of Moses, then YES, they were divine, inspired, and dictated to Moses to regulate the conduct of the nation, especially when they came to inhabit the territory that they were expected to occupy and become one more country, but a nation belonging to Jehovah and regulated under His laws, which were very different IN EVERY sense to the laws that nations had, to the point of being distinguished from the rest of the world by superiority of those laws for a time like that. It was not Moses who dictated them, but Jehovah, and that is why they are part of the inspired Scriptures that Jesus Christ himself accepted as the word of God, and so all Christians should do: recognize that the laws given to Israel came from Jehovah to regulate behavior and everything related to the life of the Israelites.

Deut. 4:5 See, I have taught YOU regulations and judicial decisions, just as Jehovah my God has commanded me, for YOU to do that way in the midst of the land to which YOU are going to take possession of it. 6 And YOU must keep and do them, because this is wisdom on YOUR part and understanding on YOUR part before the eyes of the peoples who will hear of all these regulations, and they will certainly say, ‘This great nation is undoubtedly a wise and understanding people.’ 7 For what great nation is there that has gods near to it the way Jehovah our God is in all our calling upon him? 8 And what great nation is there that has righteous regulations and judicial decisions like all this law that I am putting before YOU today?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 29 by 2timothy316]

So you'd let me beat you within an inch of your life? Exodus 21:20-21

Did I deserve it? The law didn't allow for a beating slave for no reason. Jehovah God reminded the Israelities before he set the rules for slavery that they too used to be slaves. Meaning remember their treatment in Egypt and what God did for relieve them from Eygpt. Don't think that Israel can turn into what Egypt was like and God be ok with that.

You're willing to be my property? Exodus 21:21

Better than being the property of a Baal or Moloch worshiper. Hopefully you will follow the law.

You're ok with the fact that if you have a daughter while I own you, I get to keep her as a servant/slave, forever? Exodus 21:4

Yep, because where else is she going to go the United States? Oh wait, there was no USA. Just surrounding countries that were ready either to work me to death or kill me in some sacrifice to their gods.

And they obviously didn't always take good care of their "servants" otherwise 1 Peter 2:18 would've never needed to be said.

You mean people didn't always follow the law?! Shocker!

Do you honestly think that it is ever ok, in any circumstance, to own another human being?

Yes, if it saves them from being sex slave for Moloch or a burnt offering for Baal and there is no other choice for them. I would have them a place to live, food, protection from other countries trying to killing them, give them plenty of rest breaks, particularly on the Sabbath they get the whole day to rest, and educate them. If they show that they can be followers of Jehovah, keep His Law, and able to take care of themselves then I'd probably release them to become a foreign resident if they wanted that.

[Topaz27]

Eloi:
It's not a hard question, and it shouldn't take that long to answer. Is it moral to own someone, under any circumstances?

2timothy316:
Okay, bet. I'm glad to hear that you're ok with slavery, as well as racism. Just tell me what the nearest airport to you is, and I book a flight for you.

[brianbbs67]

If someone came to me and said, I want to be be you slave. I would be on guard as they must be crazy. In the old world not so much. It was a means to an end for a lot of people with nothing. There was no unemployment or disability or whatever. 7 years of service and then freedom , if chosen and a bonus to get them started.

I still would not participate in this except in hopeless cases. Even then, my slaves would be free whenever they wanted. That is my opinion on strait out slavery. Its wrong to me and God probably didn't like it either, but at least he gave some rules to Israel. the suffering in other nations was surely greater.

All that said, morally it is not corrupt except by people who make it corrupt. It is repugnant by modern standards. It was a fact of life in the past just like indentured servitude and apprenticeship.

[JehovahsWitness]

For debate:

1) Is slavery a sin? That depends
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 348#931348

2) Has slavery always been a sin? See question #1
3) Does slavery harmonize with the Golden Rule? See question #1
4) How would you like to be kept as a slave? (related to question # 3) see question #1
5) Was slavery OK because it was practiced in Bible times, and the Law of Moses sanctioned and regulated it? No
6) Does any amount of regulation make slavery OK? Yes
Or is slavery an inherently irredeemable institution? No
7) Paul said "anything not of faith is sin". Is slavery "of faith"? N/A
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 422#949422

8) Is the Bible's seeming approval of slavery as an institution evidence of a Bible flaw? No

Go to other posts related to...

SLAVERY, CHILD ABUSE and ...THE MOSAIC LAW

[marco]

For debate:

1) Is slavery a sin? That depends

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[Topaz27]

brianbbs67:
I'm pretty sure I understand what you mean. I also understand that it would be shocking to hear that, but that was my point. Not a lot of people want to be owned.

The idea of 7 years and then free, only applies to Jewish slaves btw. Slaves from other places can be owned forever.

I'm glad that you think that slavery is wrong, and I 100% agree with you. Slavery/sevitude/owning another human being is probably one of the worst things a person can do. So then why didn't God just say something along the lines of: "Thou shall not own another human"

I just find it incredibly hypocritical for a God to allow slavery/servitude/owning other people. Then later, basically say he's an omnibenevolent being.

[Eloi]

[Replying to post 34 by Topaz27]

"Moral" is a very relative word. What is not moral for one, can be totally moral for another one. If some angry husband want to hit his wife for whatever reason he can not do it in US, but he can take her to any of those countries where men hit women and he can do it, because there is not any problem with that there. So, again, "moral" is a very tricky word you are using with things relative to biblical facts in a falacious way. More than that, the "moral" of the participants in this forum itself can be very different.

About the "slavery" in Israel times enough have been said.

Otherwise, I am from Cuba, and when I was living there many women did not mind to be sexual slaves of any rich man in another country just to scape from poverty and that is common in a lot of places. So, be realistic.

[JehovahsWitness]

For debate:

1) Is slavery a sin? That depends
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 348#931348

That depends on whether the slavery is God ordained or not. If it isn't that would depend on how the individual is treated. See link for details.